Is the car not shifting right ?
05-21-2005, 06:12 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Is the car not shifting right ?
When I occasional need to merge or have a friendly race with someone, I used to redline the first 3 gears. The RPMs would fall back down fast in between shifts so it would be in position to rev to 9 grand again in the next gear. Well when the car was at around 25k miles (I never tracked, hard-launched, or abused the car like some people) and redlined the first three gears, there were certain times when the RPMs wouldn't fall back as fast as it used to in between shifts and the overall acceleration was slower (obviously) as a result. Kind of sounds like I'm shifting like granny from the outside.
After awhile, I didn't really give a crap since I'm not a track or drag freak and hardly abuse the car (plus everything else about the car and powertrain work flawlessly so nothing else has bothered me). Now, I'm at almost 50k miles and it's now bothering me again (it isn't any worse than before, just the principle I guess).
Here is how I shift (when I'm racing or need to merge with fast moving traffic). Getting to redline is obviously easy - all you need to do is mash the gas until 9 grand when the red hashes blink about three times. Then, I release the gas as fast as I can while at the same time mashing the clutch. As this is happening, I upshift at the same time. I do this extremely violently and rapidly, my buddy says he hears and feels the floor shake from my footwork. As soon as the left foot hits the floor, I let go of the clutch as fast as humanly possible and at the same time, I mash the gas again.
This technique gave me fast upshifts but starting at around 25k miles, most of the time, the RPMs would drop slower than normal (as if something was stuck) before going up again, and at times, the RPMs would just stay in one spot and not go up (even as I'm standing on the gas in the next gear!) unless I let up on the gas and hit the gas again. I don't know too much in the way of car mechanics but it seemed to me the logical culprit could be failing clutch. But the tech told me if it was the clutch, the slow shifts would happen 100% of the time. Also, the car was only at 25k miles with no track or autox time.
Am I doing something wrong when I'm shifting? Is there something wrong with car itself? If so, what part could be responsible? Does anyone else have this problem? I used to do this on my 2000 Civic Si until 90k miles (I sold it) and the shifts were fine. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.
After awhile, I didn't really give a crap since I'm not a track or drag freak and hardly abuse the car (plus everything else about the car and powertrain work flawlessly so nothing else has bothered me). Now, I'm at almost 50k miles and it's now bothering me again (it isn't any worse than before, just the principle I guess).
Here is how I shift (when I'm racing or need to merge with fast moving traffic). Getting to redline is obviously easy - all you need to do is mash the gas until 9 grand when the red hashes blink about three times. Then, I release the gas as fast as I can while at the same time mashing the clutch. As this is happening, I upshift at the same time. I do this extremely violently and rapidly, my buddy says he hears and feels the floor shake from my footwork. As soon as the left foot hits the floor, I let go of the clutch as fast as humanly possible and at the same time, I mash the gas again.
This technique gave me fast upshifts but starting at around 25k miles, most of the time, the RPMs would drop slower than normal (as if something was stuck) before going up again, and at times, the RPMs would just stay in one spot and not go up (even as I'm standing on the gas in the next gear!) unless I let up on the gas and hit the gas again. I don't know too much in the way of car mechanics but it seemed to me the logical culprit could be failing clutch. But the tech told me if it was the clutch, the slow shifts would happen 100% of the time. Also, the car was only at 25k miles with no track or autox time.
Am I doing something wrong when I'm shifting? Is there something wrong with car itself? If so, what part could be responsible? Does anyone else have this problem? I used to do this on my 2000 Civic Si until 90k miles (I sold it) and the shifts were fine. Any ideas? Thanks in advance.
05-21-2005, 06:32 PM
#2
Sounds like your throttle might be sticky. Maybe you need an adjustment.
Of course, you should check the fluid in your tranny reservoir. Yeah, if your clutch isn't working right, then I suppose it's possible that it's not disengaging properly when you press down on the pedal. That's not the kind of failure I'd expect though... More likely you'd get slippage when you tried to engage it.
Anyway, engine revs *should* fall off immediately when you release the throttle and push the clutch in. However, you really don't need to wait to shift until you see the dash blinking. Bouncing off the rev limiter is actually kind of sloppy technique.
Of course, you should check the fluid in your tranny reservoir. Yeah, if your clutch isn't working right, then I suppose it's possible that it's not disengaging properly when you press down on the pedal. That's not the kind of failure I'd expect though... More likely you'd get slippage when you tried to engage it.
Anyway, engine revs *should* fall off immediately when you release the throttle and push the clutch in. However, you really don't need to wait to shift until you see the dash blinking. Bouncing off the rev limiter is actually kind of sloppy technique.
05-21-2005, 07:02 PM
#3
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Chazmo,May 21 2005, 09:32 PM
Sounds like your throttle might be sticky. Maybe you need an adjustment.
Of course, you should check the fluid in your tranny reservoir. Yeah, if your clutch isn't working right, then I suppose it's possible that it's not disengaging properly when you press down on the pedal. That's not the kind of failure I'd expect though... More likely you'd get slippage when you tried to engage it.
Anyway, engine revs *should* fall off immediately when you release the throttle and push the clutch in. However, you really don't need to wait to shift until you see the dash blinking. Bouncing off the rev limiter is actually kind of sloppy technique.
Of course, you should check the fluid in your tranny reservoir. Yeah, if your clutch isn't working right, then I suppose it's possible that it's not disengaging properly when you press down on the pedal. That's not the kind of failure I'd expect though... More likely you'd get slippage when you tried to engage it.
Anyway, engine revs *should* fall off immediately when you release the throttle and push the clutch in. However, you really don't need to wait to shift until you see the dash blinking. Bouncing off the rev limiter is actually kind of sloppy technique.
I'll check the tranny fluid.
I have about 5 blinks of the hash until the fuel cutoff and I don't wait until cutoff to shift. I only try to squeeze every RPM I can get before upshifting.
Thanks for the reply.
05-21-2005, 11:41 PM
#6
Thread Starter
So, you guys think I'm shifting correctly, right? And also, I would like to note that if I slowed down the shifting considerably when redlining gears like granny, the RPMs would drop quickly. And a question - there is no such thing as shifting too fast, right?
How do I check or tell the tech to check to see if I have a newer clutch slave cylinder? And if I do have the delay valve, is it safe to remove it?
Thanks for the replies guys.
How do I check or tell the tech to check to see if I have a newer clutch slave cylinder? And if I do have the delay valve, is it safe to remove it?
Thanks for the replies guys.
05-22-2005, 06:06 AM
#7
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Diego, Wess-Side!!
Posts: 8,796
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Sounds like your shifting in the right sequence but you don't need to "violently" slam your gearbox. You can shift fast without slamming gears.
I've seen people slam the gears hard just because there doing a redline shift which is not necessary. Yes your shifting quick but you should practice smooth and precise shifts and feel for the "snick" vice slamming the hell out of the shifter.
Your left foot may not fully be off the clutch when your reapplying the gas which means your slipping clutch and glazing that bad boy. Make sure that your foot work is in order.
Practice precision shifting with minimal effort at a moderate speed between shifts to make sure the overall mechanics of the evolution are being done correctly and feel for the grab of the next gear.
I think that it may be a simple habit you have of when your redline shifting, your feet do not move as fast as your mind and hands. This is a problem that I've had to correct people I've taught how to drive a manual tranny.
The mind works faster than the feet and hands and the hands move faster than the feet. This can cause a nasty 2nd gear grind or what you meantioned about a floaty experience after a shift and not feeling the grab of the next gear. THAT is definately slip and if you keep it up with mean you have to replace it.
The slave cylinder is underneath your car on the drivers side attached to the tranny. If it's a black cylinder it the older one which is better IMO. If it's silver then it's the newer one and it has a delay valve.
Do a search for slave cylinder and you will be able to read up on it.
Pretty sure you have the cylinder without the delay but it doesn't hurt to check.
Practice Practice Practice.........
I've seen people slam the gears hard just because there doing a redline shift which is not necessary. Yes your shifting quick but you should practice smooth and precise shifts and feel for the "snick" vice slamming the hell out of the shifter.
Your left foot may not fully be off the clutch when your reapplying the gas which means your slipping clutch and glazing that bad boy. Make sure that your foot work is in order.
Practice precision shifting with minimal effort at a moderate speed between shifts to make sure the overall mechanics of the evolution are being done correctly and feel for the grab of the next gear.
I think that it may be a simple habit you have of when your redline shifting, your feet do not move as fast as your mind and hands. This is a problem that I've had to correct people I've taught how to drive a manual tranny.
The mind works faster than the feet and hands and the hands move faster than the feet. This can cause a nasty 2nd gear grind or what you meantioned about a floaty experience after a shift and not feeling the grab of the next gear. THAT is definately slip and if you keep it up with mean you have to replace it.
The slave cylinder is underneath your car on the drivers side attached to the tranny. If it's a black cylinder it the older one which is better IMO. If it's silver then it's the newer one and it has a delay valve.
Do a search for slave cylinder and you will be able to read up on it.
Pretty sure you have the cylinder without the delay but it doesn't hurt to check.
Practice Practice Practice.........
Trending Topics
05-22-2005, 06:12 AM
#8
Is that what the recent, delayed slave cylinder does, guys? I thought the idea was to slow down *engagement* of the clutch, not disengagement?! Wouldn't that be foolish to mess around with disengagement?
Si driver, my impression is that something is actually wrong here. Please keep us posted, and have it looked at by a mechanic if you can't spot anything. Sticky throttle linkage (cable, whatever) is possible, but I agree with the others that something's probably wrong with the clutch.
Si driver, my impression is that something is actually wrong here. Please keep us posted, and have it looked at by a mechanic if you can't spot anything. Sticky throttle linkage (cable, whatever) is possible, but I agree with the others that something's probably wrong with the clutch.
05-23-2005, 09:19 AM
#9
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 772
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've noticed the same problem in my S recently! The difference is that mine only has 8,300kms on the odo. I also haven't tracked the car yet, nor do I needlessly beat on it. I'll get it checked out to be sure, right now I'm not sure if its the car, or possibly just lazy footwork from me. Its only been recent that I noticed this problem...one night when I took my friend for a spin. Since then I havent really had the opportunity to give it a good fangin'. Btw I shift in the same manner as you Sidriver, only not quite as violent as you...from what I'm reading hehe. 
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post