Are Carbon Doors Unsafe?
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From: Covington WA, USA
Originally Posted by Kodokan_4,May 12 2005, 05:38 PM
Carbon fiber doesn't shatter in an impact.
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From: London
Originally Posted by Kodokan_4,May 13 2005, 01:38 AM
Carbon fiber doesn't shatter in an impact.
It is a woven carbon fiber cloth material.
It can be ripped apart in a crash, but it's not like plastic or glass.
-Pete
It is a woven carbon fiber cloth material.
It can be ripped apart in a crash, but it's not like plastic or glass.
-Pete
http://www.svsp.co.uk/Shop%20Website/pages...te_sheeting.htm
400mm x 400mm Carbon Kevlar Panel:-
Manufactured using 6 layers of 200grm Carbon Fibre and a Top layer of 250grm Carbon Kevlar these panels have a nominal thickness of 1.5mm Gloss finish on the Carbon Kevlar face only. (The use of solid carbon for instrument panels is not recommended in most gliders. This is due to the way carbon shatters in an accident.)
400mm x 400mm Carbon Kevlar Panel:-
Manufactured using 6 layers of 200grm Carbon Fibre and a Top layer of 250grm Carbon Kevlar these panels have a nominal thickness of 1.5mm Gloss finish on the Carbon Kevlar face only. (The use of solid carbon for instrument panels is not recommended in most gliders. This is due to the way carbon shatters in an accident.)
http://www.gpracing.net192.com/cars/basics.cfm
Carbon Fibre
If the changes in racing had to be attributed to one factor then surely it must be the developments in carbon fibre. Incredibly strong, but lightweight, carbon fibre was originally developed as part of the NASA space program. In construction carbon fibre is similar to flbreglass - in that individual fibres are bound together in an overlay pattern. The advantage of carbon fibre is that is very strong and yet can be moulded in complex forms such as the tub illustrated above. The other advantage of this wonderful material is that the supporting suspension system does not need to carry excessive weight and can thus be pared down to the bare minimum. The overall result is that the chassis and suspension of a modern racing car look incredibly fragile yet they are strong enough to withstand the stress associated with competing at speeds of around 200mph.
Another advantage of this amazing material is that it is very brittle and in the event of a crash it shatters. Although this may sound like a bad thing that is not the case. In effect what happens is that because it shatters it helps to dissipate the energy of an impact. As a result modern drivers are able to survive impacts that would have almost certainly been fatal. Survivabilty is also improved by the fact that designers create cars that will fall to pieces in the event of an impact leaving the cockpit - called the survival cell - intact.
Carbon Fibre
If the changes in racing had to be attributed to one factor then surely it must be the developments in carbon fibre. Incredibly strong, but lightweight, carbon fibre was originally developed as part of the NASA space program. In construction carbon fibre is similar to flbreglass - in that individual fibres are bound together in an overlay pattern. The advantage of carbon fibre is that is very strong and yet can be moulded in complex forms such as the tub illustrated above. The other advantage of this wonderful material is that the supporting suspension system does not need to carry excessive weight and can thus be pared down to the bare minimum. The overall result is that the chassis and suspension of a modern racing car look incredibly fragile yet they are strong enough to withstand the stress associated with competing at speeds of around 200mph.
Another advantage of this amazing material is that it is very brittle and in the event of a crash it shatters. Although this may sound like a bad thing that is not the case. In effect what happens is that because it shatters it helps to dissipate the energy of an impact. As a result modern drivers are able to survive impacts that would have almost certainly been fatal. Survivabilty is also improved by the fact that designers create cars that will fall to pieces in the event of an impact leaving the cockpit - called the survival cell - intact.
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,594
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From: Judo Town, USA
QUOTE
http://www.svsp.co.uk/Shop%20Website...e_sheeting.htm
400mm x 400mm Carbon Kevlar Panel:-
Manufactured using 6 layers of 200grm Carbon Fibre and a Top layer of 250grm Carbon Kevlar these panels have a nominal thickness of 1.5mm Gloss finish on the Carbon Kevlar face only. (The use of solid carbon for instrument panels is not recommended in most gliders. This is due to the way carbon shatters in an accident.)
Solid carbon is very different from carbon fiber.
An important thing is that there are many types of carbon fiber materials and processes that have varying methods of preparation, rigidity and uses. Indeed, saying
http://www.svsp.co.uk/Shop%20Website...e_sheeting.htm
400mm x 400mm Carbon Kevlar Panel:-
Manufactured using 6 layers of 200grm Carbon Fibre and a Top layer of 250grm Carbon Kevlar these panels have a nominal thickness of 1.5mm Gloss finish on the Carbon Kevlar face only. (The use of solid carbon for instrument panels is not recommended in most gliders. This is due to the way carbon shatters in an accident.)
Solid carbon is very different from carbon fiber.
An important thing is that there are many types of carbon fiber materials and processes that have varying methods of preparation, rigidity and uses. Indeed, saying
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 687
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From: Miami
So... The debate continues! Since those doors from C-West and ASM are dry-carbon and formed in an autoclave, would they have incorporated saftey precautions into the doors? Irrespective of whether they have crash bars inside or not.
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From: Rowland Heights
I just always remember that you can get door dings on your door. So how strong is the skin on the door really? All true race car I seen run side impact bar incorporated into there roll cages.
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From: New York
Originally Posted by JSR_AP2,May 11 2005, 10:39 AM
Doors never take impact. The side impact bars or the door bars of a roll cage absorb the impact. The door skin is there for looks. Race cars use x-bar or nascar-style door bars attached to the roll-cage for safety, behind the CF doors.
So, here is the real answer. If you drive your car on the street, you are insane. My accident would have killed you with CF doors.
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Aftermarket carbon fiber doors come in 2 varieties. (how I refer to them may not be the same as the companies making them label them as)
1) Door skins - Basically one or two halves of a shell (inside and outside) These simply replace the interior panel and outter shell of the door. They have minimal weight savings and are mostly for looks and bragging rights (this is what the amuse 350z doors are mostly likely)
2) Race doors - Full carbon fiber doors. They do NOT have side impact bars and are not legal for road use. They save quite a bit of weight. These are the cwest and asm $8k doors.
Then there are the factory carbon fiber doors (as seen on enzo, carrera, zonda, etc..) These doors are full carbon fiber in and out, but also have a carbon impact bar (solid carbon tubing or shell is extremely rigid and light, but also extremely expensive) These are safe and legal for road use, but are not as light as the race doors mentioned above.
As far as the ferraris that aren't full carbon bodies, the carbon on the door is just a panel, mostly for looks and so they can claim to be trying to save weight. Watch the top gear review of these type cars as they point out how it is mostly "pretend" weight savings since they still have comfort items such as an AC.
1) Door skins - Basically one or two halves of a shell (inside and outside) These simply replace the interior panel and outter shell of the door. They have minimal weight savings and are mostly for looks and bragging rights (this is what the amuse 350z doors are mostly likely)
2) Race doors - Full carbon fiber doors. They do NOT have side impact bars and are not legal for road use. They save quite a bit of weight. These are the cwest and asm $8k doors.
Then there are the factory carbon fiber doors (as seen on enzo, carrera, zonda, etc..) These doors are full carbon fiber in and out, but also have a carbon impact bar (solid carbon tubing or shell is extremely rigid and light, but also extremely expensive) These are safe and legal for road use, but are not as light as the race doors mentioned above.
As far as the ferraris that aren't full carbon bodies, the carbon on the door is just a panel, mostly for looks and so they can claim to be trying to save weight. Watch the top gear review of these type cars as they point out how it is mostly "pretend" weight savings since they still have comfort items such as an AC.
