The Case For Keeping It Stock
06-02-2001, 10:26 PM
#1
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The Case For Keeping It Stock
DISCLAIMER:
Many people here like to modify their cars and there are many reasons they like to do it. Personal satisfaction, increased performance (real and/or imagined), appearance, to differentiate their car from the next guys, or just because it is my car, my money and I will do what I damn well feel like. I would like to state from the outset that all these are valid reasons to modify your car and far be it from me to try to argue that you should not do it. I just will present some valid reasons for keeping it stock and let those who are pondering the question "to modify or not" make their choice. For those who want to present the opposite point of view I suggest starting a thread called "The case for modifications".
THE CASE FOR KEEPING IT STOCK:
Most people would agree that they modify a car to "improve" it in some way, either it's appearance or it's performance and/or both. It is also safe to say that the better the car is to start with the less modification is necessary. You see very few Ferraris with aftermarket wings and such. On the other hand common cars are modified like crazy to differentiate them from each other and because they are a cheap blank canvas for those who practice the "art" of modifications. So you have Honda Civics at one end of the spectrum and Ferrari Modenas at the other. Where on that Chart does the Honda S2000 fall? Now you say the S2000 is not a Ferrari and you are correct but I say it is closer to the Ferrari than it is to the Civic. Let's forget that for a second and compare it to it's natural competitors, the Z3 and the Boxster. How many Boxsters and Z3s have you seen with aftermarket wings bolted on to them?
In another post I listed all the reasons I thought the S2000 was a "Special Car". I will not repeat them here but let it suffice to say that it comes from the factory pretty damn good. So good that 99.9% of the people who own one will never be able to drive it to it's potential. Money would be better spent on driving school if increasing your lap times at track days is your goal. Increases in the S2000s performance will be minimal (less that 20 HP without forced induction or increasing displacement). If you are only concerned about on track performance the handling can certainly be optimized for that enviornment but street livability will suffer. The car is a good compromise as it sits. If you are a racer then the car is a tool and you need to optimize it. No argument here.
Appearance? Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I have seen some pretty gruesome "improvements". Remember what you like someone else might very well hate and that someone else can then be scratched off the potential buyers list when it comes time to sell your work of "art".
What it all costs;
Well there is the cost of the modifications to start, factor that in, then there is the probable (with rare exceptions) loss of value to the car. Almost everyone would rather buy a showroom perfect used car than one that has been modified. Even someone who is in to modding their car would most probably rather buy a stock one and mod it to their specs rather than living with your choices. Of course the fact that you HAVE modified your car tells the potential buyer a lot about you the seller (if its true or not it doesn't matter), it says this car was probably flogged to within an inch of it's life every Saturday night. So you factor in how you have spent lots of money to decrease the retail value of your car. Mods that affect the warranty cost even more. Break something and have the warranty denied because you modified your car and that has to be factored into the cost of what you did. Bottom line is that if you are going to mod your car make sure you can return it to stock. Body kits, wings, repaints all devalue the car as a collector's car and even just as a used car.
Ever been out cruising and seen a really nice bone stock car from the 60s or 70s drive by and say to yourself "Man that would be nice to own"? Does seeing that same kind of car with a hood scoop flared wheel wells and a bolt on wing inspire the same response? I always say to myself "Some kid really fu@ked up that nice car". Go to any classic car show or watch any high end auction and the cars that retain their value are almost always bone stock original examples. Collectors don't bid on cars that have been modified past redemption. What kind of cars are going to be collected in the future? Well cars that are desirable now. Roadsters are always high on the list and limited edition, hand assembled ones with a landmark engine will be in demand I predict. Heck TR6s and MGBs are hot right now and they were nothing special in their day. Just something to think about if you are planning on keeping your S2000 for awhile. True cars are generally poor investments but modified cars are even worse.
I respect the engineers who designed this car. It is a cut above most sports cars. There is a certain minimalist purity in it's design. I feel to tamper with it is a sort of sacrilege. The car is the thoughts and ideas of these engineers distilled into sheetmetal. I respect it as such. You might think the Mona Lisa would be improved if she just had a little lipstick but trust me,...she would not.
So I think I would sum up by saying that whether you modify your car or not depends on where you place it in the Civic.........to............Ferrari spectrum. Those of us who place it closer to the Ferrari end will never do anything that will alter it from stock permenently. Those who see it as just a car like most others will not have any hesitation to rip into it and change it to their liking.
Well that is my post, just some thoughts about why you may want to think twice before bolting that big wing on.
Many people here like to modify their cars and there are many reasons they like to do it. Personal satisfaction, increased performance (real and/or imagined), appearance, to differentiate their car from the next guys, or just because it is my car, my money and I will do what I damn well feel like. I would like to state from the outset that all these are valid reasons to modify your car and far be it from me to try to argue that you should not do it. I just will present some valid reasons for keeping it stock and let those who are pondering the question "to modify or not" make their choice. For those who want to present the opposite point of view I suggest starting a thread called "The case for modifications".
THE CASE FOR KEEPING IT STOCK:
Most people would agree that they modify a car to "improve" it in some way, either it's appearance or it's performance and/or both. It is also safe to say that the better the car is to start with the less modification is necessary. You see very few Ferraris with aftermarket wings and such. On the other hand common cars are modified like crazy to differentiate them from each other and because they are a cheap blank canvas for those who practice the "art" of modifications. So you have Honda Civics at one end of the spectrum and Ferrari Modenas at the other. Where on that Chart does the Honda S2000 fall? Now you say the S2000 is not a Ferrari and you are correct but I say it is closer to the Ferrari than it is to the Civic. Let's forget that for a second and compare it to it's natural competitors, the Z3 and the Boxster. How many Boxsters and Z3s have you seen with aftermarket wings bolted on to them?
In another post I listed all the reasons I thought the S2000 was a "Special Car". I will not repeat them here but let it suffice to say that it comes from the factory pretty damn good. So good that 99.9% of the people who own one will never be able to drive it to it's potential. Money would be better spent on driving school if increasing your lap times at track days is your goal. Increases in the S2000s performance will be minimal (less that 20 HP without forced induction or increasing displacement). If you are only concerned about on track performance the handling can certainly be optimized for that enviornment but street livability will suffer. The car is a good compromise as it sits. If you are a racer then the car is a tool and you need to optimize it. No argument here.
Appearance? Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I have seen some pretty gruesome "improvements". Remember what you like someone else might very well hate and that someone else can then be scratched off the potential buyers list when it comes time to sell your work of "art".
What it all costs;
Well there is the cost of the modifications to start, factor that in, then there is the probable (with rare exceptions) loss of value to the car. Almost everyone would rather buy a showroom perfect used car than one that has been modified. Even someone who is in to modding their car would most probably rather buy a stock one and mod it to their specs rather than living with your choices. Of course the fact that you HAVE modified your car tells the potential buyer a lot about you the seller (if its true or not it doesn't matter), it says this car was probably flogged to within an inch of it's life every Saturday night. So you factor in how you have spent lots of money to decrease the retail value of your car. Mods that affect the warranty cost even more. Break something and have the warranty denied because you modified your car and that has to be factored into the cost of what you did. Bottom line is that if you are going to mod your car make sure you can return it to stock. Body kits, wings, repaints all devalue the car as a collector's car and even just as a used car.
Ever been out cruising and seen a really nice bone stock car from the 60s or 70s drive by and say to yourself "Man that would be nice to own"? Does seeing that same kind of car with a hood scoop flared wheel wells and a bolt on wing inspire the same response? I always say to myself "Some kid really fu@ked up that nice car". Go to any classic car show or watch any high end auction and the cars that retain their value are almost always bone stock original examples. Collectors don't bid on cars that have been modified past redemption. What kind of cars are going to be collected in the future? Well cars that are desirable now. Roadsters are always high on the list and limited edition, hand assembled ones with a landmark engine will be in demand I predict. Heck TR6s and MGBs are hot right now and they were nothing special in their day. Just something to think about if you are planning on keeping your S2000 for awhile. True cars are generally poor investments but modified cars are even worse.
I respect the engineers who designed this car. It is a cut above most sports cars. There is a certain minimalist purity in it's design. I feel to tamper with it is a sort of sacrilege. The car is the thoughts and ideas of these engineers distilled into sheetmetal. I respect it as such. You might think the Mona Lisa would be improved if she just had a little lipstick but trust me,...she would not.
So I think I would sum up by saying that whether you modify your car or not depends on where you place it in the Civic.........to............Ferrari spectrum. Those of us who place it closer to the Ferrari end will never do anything that will alter it from stock permenently. Those who see it as just a car like most others will not have any hesitation to rip into it and change it to their liking.
Well that is my post, just some thoughts about why you may want to think twice before bolting that big wing on.
06-02-2001, 10:43 PM
#2
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I am keeping mine stock except maybe the battery, brakes and air filter. I have saved the original air filter with only 800 miles on it and replaced it with a Comptech filter. I want to see how well Honda really built this car.
Richard
Richard
06-02-2001, 10:48 PM
#3
Great case Bieg. I agree with you, in that I think the S2000 is unique enough and "cool" enough to leave alone - that is a big reason I wanted one so badly. I respect people's right to alter their cars as they see fit, but we're lucky enough to drive something special straight off the line.
06-02-2001, 11:19 PM
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Bieg,
Keep in mind that in most cases high performance hardwares can be removed and the car can be returned to stock if the owner chooses to do so.
Saying that, I am with you. I like mine stock.
[Edited by asenna911 on 06-03-2001 at 12:32 AM]
Keep in mind that in most cases high performance hardwares can be removed and the car can be returned to stock if the owner chooses to do so.
Saying that, I am with you. I like mine stock.
[Edited by asenna911 on 06-03-2001 at 12:32 AM]
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06-03-2001, 02:34 AM
#9
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Bieg,
Have you made no modifications? Do you have any of Rick's goods? Do you suggest that the floormats should also be stock or are Muz's replacement acceptable?
I have made some mods to my car for both looks and performance. Everything I've done can be undone (that is very important to me for resale value) but while I have it I've made some "improvements" as follows:
As I said, I can return the car to stock in about one day. I have all the original parts (save the small mod I had to make to the airbox for the K&N) or can easily order a replacement.
We all bought our car's for our own reasons and drive them differently. If you like to autocross it is impossible to be competitive with the stock configuration for example. I would in fact argue that those that have "taken it apart" know a lot more about thier cars that those that don't. Everyone is different and do things for different reasons. It's your car and you have just as much right to keep it 100% stock (impossible BTW) as others do to modify it to suit their needs and desires. Many of us like to tinker, it's just a natural compulsion, part of being an engineer as in my case.
You imply (in this post and others) that the car is 100% perfect for every driver and every driving style and at the same time admit to the compromises made to make the car appeal to the general population. I would instead argue that you should do what gives you the most pleasure. If changing the suspension setup such that it would be considered "uncomfortable" for some may be exactly what the owner wants. Should they live with it as is even though they would rather it be different. Obviously you are quite satisfied and that great. Not everyone is as happy about those compromises as you seem to be. Your world is a little too black and white for my taste.
Have you made no modifications? Do you have any of Rick's goods? Do you suggest that the floormats should also be stock or are Muz's replacement acceptable?
I have made some mods to my car for both looks and performance. Everything I've done can be undone (that is very important to me for resale value) but while I have it I've made some "improvements" as follows:
As I said, I can return the car to stock in about one day. I have all the original parts (save the small mod I had to make to the airbox for the K&N) or can easily order a replacement.
We all bought our car's for our own reasons and drive them differently. If you like to autocross it is impossible to be competitive with the stock configuration for example. I would in fact argue that those that have "taken it apart" know a lot more about thier cars that those that don't. Everyone is different and do things for different reasons. It's your car and you have just as much right to keep it 100% stock (impossible BTW) as others do to modify it to suit their needs and desires. Many of us like to tinker, it's just a natural compulsion, part of being an engineer as in my case.
You imply (in this post and others) that the car is 100% perfect for every driver and every driving style and at the same time admit to the compromises made to make the car appeal to the general population. I would instead argue that you should do what gives you the most pleasure. If changing the suspension setup such that it would be considered "uncomfortable" for some may be exactly what the owner wants. Should they live with it as is even though they would rather it be different. Obviously you are quite satisfied and that great. Not everyone is as happy about those compromises as you seem to be. Your world is a little too black and white for my taste.
06-03-2001, 02:38 AM
#10
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Man is this what you do on your Saturday nights? Ponder why OTHERS choose to mod their cars? And obviously you DO care what others do to their car because otherwise you wouldn't spend so much time making a case for not doing it. You'd just choose to not do it to YOUR car.