Ceramic Coating
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From: Santa Cruz, CA, US
Originally posted by cdelena:
Although these coatings do work, I remember tests that show that they are no where near as effective as a heat shield in reducing air temps in the surrounding area.
Although these coatings do work, I remember tests that show that they are no where near as effective as a heat shield in reducing air temps in the surrounding area.
I put my heat shield on last night.
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<<Although these coatings do work, I remember tests that show that they are no where near as effective as a heat shield in reducing air temps in the surrounding area>>
Generally yes. There are some special coatings that are amazing but they don't look as nice. One or two are supposed to work so well that you can touch a header with your bare hands about one minute after turning a car off after a drive. That's a multilayer inside and out deal.
I wound up using a thermotec blanket (not wrap) for a set of headers already on my car. About a 20 minute install. It cuts the local temperature down to about 150 degrees. Not very "hot" looking though.
Stan
Generally yes. There are some special coatings that are amazing but they don't look as nice. One or two are supposed to work so well that you can touch a header with your bare hands about one minute after turning a car off after a drive. That's a multilayer inside and out deal.
I wound up using a thermotec blanket (not wrap) for a set of headers already on my car. About a 20 minute install. It cuts the local temperature down to about 150 degrees. Not very "hot" looking though.
Stan
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From: WA
It becoming very clear that heat reduces performance more rapidly on this car than others (look at the Mugen hood vents!). So my question.. is there enough pay off for a (mostly) street car to spend the $200 or so to coat the headers.
(should we consider coating the intake instead and ventilating the engine compartment).
(should we consider coating the intake instead and ventilating the engine compartment).
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Cdlena, all high output small motors are very heat sensitive. I autocross my 2.3 litre 4 cylinder M3. Waiting on line for 5-10 minutes, moving the car forward once a munute really gets things heat soaked. A one minute autocross run is not enough time to cool things off. The car is not overheating at all, rather it is getting heat soaked. I tried some Road Dyno runs to see what was happening. I lose around 10-12 hp with about a five minute hot engine idle period. Drive around a 30-40 MPH for five minutes and try again....bang the power is back. This is a loss over a wide RPM range so you can really feel it on the ole butt dyno. The thermotec blanket cut the idle heat soak by about 50-60%. Now the car experiences hardly any loss with up to about a 2 1/2 minute hot idle and a lesser degree of loss beyond that point.
It turns out that most of the remaining heat soak issue is related to the catalytic converter area which is under the seat area. Due to the tranny tunnel, when you idle, the hot air flow from that area of the exhaust rises and is then directed upward at the firewall. My infrared gizmo shows 350 degree air rising from back there in the firewall vicinity!!! I plan to make a little sheet metal fence to preclude this factor from dominating remaining heat soak issues. Another trick is that I have the radiator fan wired to run BACKWARDS with the gearbox in neutral so that it pulls air out the grill at that time.
Stan
It turns out that most of the remaining heat soak issue is related to the catalytic converter area which is under the seat area. Due to the tranny tunnel, when you idle, the hot air flow from that area of the exhaust rises and is then directed upward at the firewall. My infrared gizmo shows 350 degree air rising from back there in the firewall vicinity!!! I plan to make a little sheet metal fence to preclude this factor from dominating remaining heat soak issues. Another trick is that I have the radiator fan wired to run BACKWARDS with the gearbox in neutral so that it pulls air out the grill at that time.
Stan
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From: SoCal
I have decided not to get the headers heat coated. Here is a copy of an email from Scott at Kingmotorsports to Shaner regarding header coating:
"Hi Shane,
We have been using Jet-Hot coating for about 15 years now. Mostly we use this coating as a rust preventive measure for our hand fabricated mid steel race headers. We discussed header coating at GREAT length with the head engineer at Mugen for our GT-3 engine program (he is now the head of the
Mugen-Honda F-1 engine program). Mugen feels they want heat to leave the header as quickly as possible for maximum HP. Case and point, NO F-1 team uses any coatings on their headers. We ran dyno tests with and without coating and found no differences.
The heat shield on the S2000 header does a great job. I think what you are trying to accomplish is to lower the engine bay temps in hope the ECU will not try to compensate for high intake air temps. I don't think this will help this because the ECU also reads coolant temps and oil temps which all
fluctuate greatly. Bottom line is the Mugen ECU will solve this, while I am sure the header coating will not. Plus the coating covers all the gorgeous Mugen fabrication! The same person that builds the S2000 header at Mugen builds all the F-1 headers and exhausts!!
In any event, if you want us to send your header to Jet-Hot we can certainly do this. We will have to send you the hardware separate and Jet-Hot uses their own packaging, so the Mugen header box won't
make it to you. Jet-Hot is terminally slow in their process so count on a few extra days beyond your quoted time.
Let us know how you would like to go and we will be happy to help out... Talk to you soon,
Scott"
"Hi Shane,
We have been using Jet-Hot coating for about 15 years now. Mostly we use this coating as a rust preventive measure for our hand fabricated mid steel race headers. We discussed header coating at GREAT length with the head engineer at Mugen for our GT-3 engine program (he is now the head of the
Mugen-Honda F-1 engine program). Mugen feels they want heat to leave the header as quickly as possible for maximum HP. Case and point, NO F-1 team uses any coatings on their headers. We ran dyno tests with and without coating and found no differences.
The heat shield on the S2000 header does a great job. I think what you are trying to accomplish is to lower the engine bay temps in hope the ECU will not try to compensate for high intake air temps. I don't think this will help this because the ECU also reads coolant temps and oil temps which all
fluctuate greatly. Bottom line is the Mugen ECU will solve this, while I am sure the header coating will not. Plus the coating covers all the gorgeous Mugen fabrication! The same person that builds the S2000 header at Mugen builds all the F-1 headers and exhausts!!
In any event, if you want us to send your header to Jet-Hot we can certainly do this. We will have to send you the hardware separate and Jet-Hot uses their own packaging, so the Mugen header box won't
make it to you. Jet-Hot is terminally slow in their process so count on a few extra days beyond your quoted time.
Let us know how you would like to go and we will be happy to help out... Talk to you soon,
Scott"
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