What do you expect to learn from people who are not being honest with themselves about their ability and blame the car and or tires for when they screw up? How to deflect blame?

Maybe you want to be all warm and fuzzy to people who refuse to take responsibility for their actions but this is an international forum and claims that paint the S2000 as "an evil handling beast", etc.... serve to hurt the S2000 and us as S2000 owners. Remember what unfounded claims of "unintentional acceleration" did for Audi. It almost destroyed them. How would you have liked to have been an Audi owner at the time and not be able to sell your car because it was a "killer"?

I feel it is OUR collective responsibility to stop false information from being spread here. We owe it to Honda and we owe it to ourselves.

To those who are considering an S2000 and are reading this now, the car is a very serious automobile. It is not for neophytes. You must give this car you full attention and have a certain minimum skill level with RWD cars before you should consider buying this car. Performance Driving School experience is a plus.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bieg
[B]To those who are considering an S2000 and are reading this now, the car is a very serious automobile.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jschmidt
[B]As I remember it, this was my experience too. I don't think they give a lot of butt feedback either. Hence the need to drive them with more safety margin than tires with more feedback (he says broken recordly...)

 

I'll throw my hat in here....

Where do most S2000 accidents happen? I would bet that most are in a corner.

When is bumpsteer an issue? I bet that it is felt almost exclusively in a corner.

Anyone see where I am going?

As I have said in other threads, I have driven both King project cars with front bumpsteer kits fairly extensively. These cars "feel" much more planted to the road then a stock S2000. Granted that these cars also have different dampers, wheels and tires.

But, the fact remains, that in a stock S2000 one of the worst things that can happen is a change in conditions during a somewhat "hot" to "hot" corner. This can be lifting off the throttle, hitting the brakes, both or a change in road surface.

On track days, as I have said in other threads, I will alter my line sometimes to avoid uneven surfaces in corners. They upset the car far more than I think they should and the culprit is bumpsteer. This can happen on the road as well.

This goes back to the common theme among us here - don't get in over your head and that level goes up the more you drive.

Age isn't the problem - it's driving time. I happened to meet the youngest driver ever at LeMans this past summer - he is 19 I think. He drives some crazy machinery for a race team I know and drives them far better than I could at age 30.

 

What Tonky said.
Also: Re: Meat's comment on "hot" corners. Noone should be doing "hot" corners on a public road. If you do and you have a mishap then that's your own problem UNTIL you involve the well being of other people and/or their property. It's not solely a matter of what a "great" driver a person is. On the street, it often is a matter of mature and responsible driving attitude and behavior. Sure, go out and have fun with the car. You DON'T have to drive @ 10/10ths or 9/10ths or even 8/10ths of your and the car's ability to do it. You play, you pay (sometimes). Accept blame where it properly belongs and don't expect a lot of fiddles when you may be the orchestrator of your own sh$t when it happens.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by meat
[B]


Age isn't the problem - it's driving time.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bieg
[B]What do you expect to learn from people who are not being honest with themselves about their ability and blame the car and or tires for when they screw up?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jschmidt
[B]No, let me be more plain and less gracious. I think it is ignorant (dare I say Falwellian?) to believe that it is one's social responsibility to make sure that everyone else has your own ideas about personal responsibility and guilt.

I've also discovered (in probably the same number of years as some of our most critical members) that thinking you are smarter than everyone else is generally a sure sign that you are not.

I'd frankly rather hear ideas about cars (right or wrong or even stupid) than repetitive moral diatribes that don't further contribute to the discussion after the first tired rendering.

 

back to the original question ;what is causing all these accidents?Is the stook more prone to crashing? are there statistics to support this?Probably not.Until someone has enough of a sample size and acurate reporting we"ll never know;but I think the simplest explanation is that never before has a car with this much performance and low speed stability ie.. quick turn, been offered for 30 k$ .and from such a familliar company that is assoc with reliability and value. My point is that these attributes have put s2000's in the garrages of first time car owners, and folks moving up from underpowerd econocars or evil handling cars.the common thread from the experienced drivers is know thy cars limits and prevailing road conditions as well as ambient temperatures.All of the inexperienced should go to school and autox if possible.At the very least find an empty big parking lot and create your own skid pad.Tires are your connection to the ground but dont have minds of there own ,they do what you and the suspension geometry tell them. My 3 cents.

 

Hey Jim-

Can I use this as a standard post to other threads?

Brilliant stuff...

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jschmidt
[B]No, let me be more plain and less gracious. I think it is ignorant (dare I say Falwellian?) to believe that it is one's social responsibility to make sure that everyone else has your own ideas about personal responsibility and guilt.

I've also discovered (in probably the same number of years as some of our most critical members) that thinking you are smarter than everyone else is generally a sure sign that you are not.

I'd frankly rather hear ideas about cars (right or wrong or even stupid) than repetitive moral diatribes that don't further contribute to the discussion after the first tired rendering.