I think Honda doesn't offer them on the Si for a couple reasons.

1. So many buyers of these cars upgrade them anyways, so why bother?

(and this is the big one IMO)

2. When Honda puts nice wheels on their cars, they get stolen, a lot. One only need look at the 3rd gen Integra GS-R. After huge amounts of wheel thefts early on (I lost one set and almost another, even with wheel locks), Acura actually changed the wheel designs to something kinda plain, even ugly. Woosh, away went the theft problems (don't know if the insurance companies ever dropped the rates though).

On the topic of the Viper, on the track they stop pretty damn well (although the fade resistance doesn't appear to be great, but I've never driven one long enough or hard enough to find out). Big rotors, sticky tires, but modulating them to a dead stop can be tough (lockup usually happens as speeds get low).

But, let's get to the Civic and Accord. I recently had an opportunity to test drive a Civic Factory Performance package for a few days. I went out and performed some instrumented testing (results at www.vtec.net) and was impressed with the stopping distances. From 60 mph, it was within 6-7 ft of my stock S2000 on S02s! And this was with no brake upgrade (still had rear drums even!). Just better tires, the same ones that come on the Toyota Celica GT-S as a matter of fact. There is nothing wrong with those brakes for everyday driving. Honda has just picked a one size fits all tire that could be better in dry grip. I too wish they'd offer a sport package like other manufacturers, but they aren't dangerous as is.

UL

 

I really don't care what Honda does with civics or odysseys or their other crappy cars. It's good ones that matter like the NSX. Firstly that body was getting old in the 90's, but was still pleasing to the eye. Then we hear about the "new" nsx, which is yet to come out. But it seems that Honda is gonna go the Hybrid way on the new NSX a la the dualnote concept god that is gonna be a titanic mistake if honda thinks it can sell a $80k + hybrid, why do they even have an f1 program if they are'nt gonna do anything with it. Look at BMW and Toyota they are gonna use street versions of their v10's in future cars why can't honda??

 

ahem ahem...

in case you didn't notice Mr. Porsche, those bmw and toyota v10s are NOT F1-derived! they are not! are not! are not! the toyota is merely two of their straight-sixes sharing a common crankshaft (totalling 5.0- or 6.0-liters depending on 2JZ or 3JZ donors). im not sure of the specs of the bmw engine, but i can tell you it will not be f1-derived. maybe it will borrow f1 technology, but unless these so-called street-F1 engines displace 3.0 to 3.5 liters among 10 or 12 cylinders (i guess there could also be the 1.5-liter v-6tt's from the 80s), these engines are still non-f1.

and as much as i love honda, the rumored f1-derived for the next-gen nsx will not be f1-derived. f1-derived means it shares the same block (roughly) as the race-spec engine.

here's a true example of an f1-derived engine: sauber's entry for the next season of WGP bikes is a 1-liter 3-cylinder engine with pneumatic valves. this is f1 derived.

and the aston martin vanquish? that engine is basically two ford taurus vs's slapped together end-to-end. of course it was tuned at aston martin lagonda, but it still started as a taurus.



what does this all mean? for one thing, f1 technology is way too advanced AND expensive for any practical street-use; it can't handle the abuse of daily driving.



as for the dualnote... it's a 180mph+ hybrid... compare it to any other $80k car and well...
let's just say i'd drive it over a cayenne anyday

 

Nobody,
"Accord and Civic brakes leave a lot to be desired..."

duh, you're talking about accord and civic, in case you didn't notice. this isn't bmw m5 or porsche 911, these are sub-$20k cars you're talking about.

 

For the SVT, TRD, Mazdaspeed comment.... Honda is starting a line of products called FP (factory performance) next year. The first vehicle to be available with a FP package will be the 2dr Civic EX. The engine will be the same, but the FP package will include more aggressive styling (adding a ground effects kit), sport tuned handling (NSX inspired suspension, the same engineer responsible for the suspension of the NSX designed the suspension of the FP Civic EX), and 16" wheels. The FP Civic EX will be in limited quantity, and should be available in 2003. Honda is just testing the market with the Civic. If it does well, then they will have FP packages available for other vehicles as well. The reason why Honda hasn't done this until now is because there is sooo many aftermarket performance products available for honda's already.

 

sdiddy... im sure the FP civic will sell, but why call start an fp division when honda already has mugen?

mugen has been greatly popularized by the gran turismo trilogy, and would no doubt help sales (vs an 'FP' package - yuck), and should supply parts to upgrade the civic to sell as a one-off.

an FP with factory-installed Honda parts, part of the prestige is lost when the you know the actual parts are still Honda - they're simply an option.

which brings us back to the honda/acura debate (acura was started as aluxury-Honda division because consumers found it hard to match the name 'Honda' with 'upscale'). 'Mugen' is much more powerful than 'FP'

 

Honda is introducing the FP line to prove that NO ONE can tune honda's better than HONDA. They want to prove that they can make their cars handle better than any other (insert brand name here) equiped vehicle while still keeping daily driveability and WARRANTY. Honda had a road course contest about a year ago, with several aftermarket manufacturers, to see which manufacturer's Civic would turn the best times. Coincidently, Honda had a prototype 'FP' equiped Civic there. Honda's Civic was not the most powerful one there, it only had minimal engine mods, if any at all. At the end of the day, Honda's 'FP' Civic turned the best time of the day by a notable amount. I cant remember where I read this, but I believe the article about this is printed in a 'VELOCITY' magazine. If it isn't, then it is printed in a magazine that we get at the dealership (sort of like a newsletter). If I remember, I will get the article tomorrow, scan it, and post it for all to read...

 

with me, i'd love to know my civic FP has a suspension designed by the mind behind the nsx's, but most civic buyers could care less. (most probably don't even know what an nsx is.)

my point was not that the FP would not be fast, but that it would be making more of a statement if it were marketed under Mugen's name. i would think that a mugen-badged civic would be sale-able (is this a word?) at Honda dealerships while still retaining full warranty coverage.



i guess if honda won't partner with Spoon, JUN, TODA, Comptech, or even Mugen, an FP Civic will do

 

I believe Honda leaves that up to the dealership. The dealership I work at has an account with Comptech. We recently sold an RSX-S that was fitted with Comptech springs and exhaust (plus Acura OE ground effects kit, spoiler, and 18" wheels... $30k+ RSX-S!!!) With all of that, we will still honor the warranty because everything was dealer installed.

 

nice...

nice to know there are some warranted comptech hondas

and nice to nkow there are actually some honda dealership employees that have a passion for hondas - or at least know what they're talking about


thanks sdiddy