S2000 Talk Discussions related to the S2000, its ownership and enthusiasm for it.

does it use gas to slow down by downshifting

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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 11:04 AM
  #41  
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You get a certain amount of 'natural' engine braking with a manual transmission, vs. an automatic. I don't think it is wise to perform aggressive downshifting to increase the engine braking, since clutches and transmissions are much more expensive than brake pads. The opposite end of the spectrum was my 1964 SAAB 96, which had a two stroke engine and freewheeling. At any road speed, the engine speed would drop to idle when the accelerator was released. This is necessary with a two stroke engine in which oil is added to the gasoline [high engine rpm + closed throttle = no lubrication = disaster]. Later, I had a 1967 SAAB 96 with the V-4 engine. I locked out the free wheel, after experiencing an engine stall while 'idling' at 60 mph. You could feel the significant effect of engine braking even in high gear.
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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 11:17 AM
  #42  
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good points, that is why i mentioned daily driving.

if i am on aggressive mode, i will rarely be in neutral whether it be acceleration or deceleration.

but on days where i am the only one on the road and i am just chillin, i don't practice the same techniques. i just get sloppy and use the current gear i am in (which on the street is usually 3rd) and slow down before i put it in neutral for a complete stop. maybe i will only be semi lazy that day and downshift to 2nd when my rpm's reach about 2k and let the synchros go to work as i feel wear is minimal at this rpm. i will never downshift to first in daily driving to slow the car down tho, feels like a waste of effort, you are going so slow at that point.

however, in this car i often find myself in aggressive mode.
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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 11:30 AM
  #43  
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There is extra driveline stress though. That was the whole point, yes?

Heel-toeing at 2000 rpms? Yeah, but its just practice for rev-matching. I can do it from redline too.

Isn't rev-matching just heel-toe downshifting with braking incorporated?

Isn't when you have safely matched your revs from the downshift, and you smoothly let out the clutch engine braking?

Please set me straight if I'm confused about that stuff. I've thought I was doing it right this whole time.

Heel-toeing in everyday driving? As much as I can!! Its fun! I'm not talking about traffic here, I'm talking about you have some room in front to gas it right until you turn right on a freeway onramp or something.

I'm waiting until I can go to another driving event and have a professional instructor sit in the car with me and point out to me that I'm doing it wrong. Until then, I'll trust what I know.

The best thing for a car is to stick in the garage and baby it when you drive it, but thats no fun. well, not as much fun as driving it hard.
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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 11:47 AM
  #44  
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rev matching is getting the wheels to match the engine speed if u are accelerating or decelerating

here is my heel-toe:

1.approach a corner at current speed.
2.brake
3.while foot is on brake, clutch down and downshift, blip throttle
4.clutch out, foot off brake sliding to the gas

assuming you have rev matched properly, it should be a smooth transition.
nothing beats the feeling of a perfect match.

practice on the street is ok if no one is around. you don't want to over match and lunge forward and hit someone/thing. however it is harder to get a good match at lower rpm's.

if done correctly should not incur EXTRA wear.

drive safe.
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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 11:58 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by L8-APX,Aug 4 2005, 01:30 PM
Isn't rev-matching just heel-toe downshifting with braking incorporated?
Other way around
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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 01:13 PM
  #46  
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another thing people dont realise is,

they see a hill and think ohh good i can coast down here to save some fuel

while the truth being stick it in to 5th or 6th and take your foot off the gas and let it roll down, NO fuel will be used in this method,

if you go down coasting you ARE using fuel as you have having to keep the engine idling.


PLEASE never coast along a road, you more or less have no control over the car, in that short period of time that something may happen that you need to accelerate out of a situation or that you need to break hard. when you coast they become very difficult! its also very unsafe


a big and thanks to xviper as usual for his excelent information.
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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 01:35 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by SgtKarj,Aug 4 2005, 11:51 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when coasting, the brake system is not being charged by the engine's revolutions and when called upon, can run short of vacuum, thereby running into a bad situation, i.e. no power assist for the brakes. While this would likely be exceedingly rare, it could possibly happen, say coasting for many miles down a long mountain road out of gear while using the brakes intermittently - ? Perhaps under certain circumstances, the braking system would run short of power?
Even at idle, this engine will still pull about -10 psi vacuum constantly. This is more than adequate to maintain brake boost. However, just because your brakes still work well at idle doesn't mean you should disconnect the engine from the rest of the driveline and coast.
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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 01:38 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by meth,Aug 4 2005, 12:17 PM
i will never downshift to first in daily driving to slow the car down tho, feels like a waste of effort, you are going so slow at that point.
I hardly ever either. As you say, it's not really necessary unless you know you are about to move off and your speed has decreased dramatically and you anticipate on having to accelerate briskly.

(This is related to the "heel/toe" thing but I'll comment further in my next post as it relates to another reply.)
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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 01:44 PM
  #49  
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From: Hollywood
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Originally Posted by xviper,Aug 4 2005, 02:38 PM
I hardly ever either. As you say, it's not really necessary unless you know you are about to move off and your speed has decreased dramatically and you anticipate on having to accelerate briskly.

(This is related to the "heel/toe" thing but I'll comment further in my next post as it relates to another reply.)
yeah, one more thing is that i find it harder to engage 1st gear when moving slow. sometimes i have to fight with it to go in at lower rpm, so i just say forget it.
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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 01:48 PM
  #50  
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^^ Double-clutch and your problem is solved. However, you really only need to downshift to first if you are driving very aggressively.
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