Dropping like flies!
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From: :spam:u
The name of the game in performance driving is knowing how to use "weight transfer" to keep the car under control. What seperates the good drivers from the people who just think they know what they are doing is which pedal they use when the tail starts to get a little squirmy.
Rear wheel drive cars in general and the S2000 in particular are a bit "counter-intuitive" to drive well. For example;
You are driving hot comming up to a turn, you get on the brakes to scrub off some speed. Weight is transfered to the front wheels and you know this because the nose dips down. You must realize that at this point the weight ballance of the car is no longer 50/50 as that is only true when the car is standing still. Depending on how hot you were going and how hard (and abruptly) you applied the brakes the rear has lightened to some degree. Less weight on the rear wheels as you are turning will cause the car to want to oversteer (tail to come around). This is why you want to be off the brakes (on the S2000) when you initiate the turn. When you let off on the brakes weight starts to transfer back to the 50/50 ballance. When you start to turn the 50/50 ballance changes again to the weight shifting to the outside wheels. ALWAYS keep in mind that the weight ballance is CONSTANTLY changing as you drive depending on your inputs on the gas, brakes and steering. So we are off the brakes and entering a turn. The weight is transfering in two directions (to the outside of the car and from front to back) If you went in real hot the rear will start to feel like it wants to step out. AT THIS POINT A GOOD DRIVER KNOWS TO GENTLY ROLL THE THROTTLE ON TO CONTINUE THE PROCESS OF TRANSFERING THE WEIGHT TO THE REAR WHEELS so as to load them and let them take a set into the turn. A less experienced driver will NOT hit the throttle at best or try to hit the brakes at worst. This will generally cause the car to swap ends (and generate complaints of how evil the S2000 handles).
The handling is COUNTER-INTUITIVE because as you get yourself into a butt-clenching situation (as described above) YOU NEED TO ROLL ON MORE GAS NOT LESS. It also happens to be the defining moment in your driving career. Once you take the leap of faith that the physics of these driving dynamics won't let you down and you actully roll on the gas you become a hundred times the driver than you were.
THINGS TO REMEMBER!
IT IS OF THE UTMOST IMPORTANCE THAT ALL YOUR INPUTS BE SMOOTH!
You don't "Stomp" on the brakes or the gas. It is important you ease the brakes and the throttle on and off. This keeps the weight transfer smooth and upsets the car on it's suspension less. In the example above the transfer of weight from full braking prior to the turn to full acceleration exiting the turn should be smooth and continuous. This will come with practice.
The first few times you try this your adrenaline will try to get the best of you. It is hard to have smooth subtle control inputs when you are on an adrenaline rush. This is why you should be practicing this in an empty parking lot with plenty of run off room.
The S2000 is such a razor sharp driving tool that all control inputs need to be smooth and precise otherwise the car will feel unsettled. The faster you drive the LESS input is required.
This is one of the most demanding cars (it demands you to be smooth and precise) to drive well. It is NOT forgiving of drivers who are not. Don't missinterpet this though. Anyone can drive it around at 90% under ideal conditions. It IS demanding and unforgiving in less than ideal traction conditions or when driving at the limits.
It is a car worth mastering because when you get it right there is not much else out there that compares.
Rear wheel drive cars in general and the S2000 in particular are a bit "counter-intuitive" to drive well. For example;
You are driving hot comming up to a turn, you get on the brakes to scrub off some speed. Weight is transfered to the front wheels and you know this because the nose dips down. You must realize that at this point the weight ballance of the car is no longer 50/50 as that is only true when the car is standing still. Depending on how hot you were going and how hard (and abruptly) you applied the brakes the rear has lightened to some degree. Less weight on the rear wheels as you are turning will cause the car to want to oversteer (tail to come around). This is why you want to be off the brakes (on the S2000) when you initiate the turn. When you let off on the brakes weight starts to transfer back to the 50/50 ballance. When you start to turn the 50/50 ballance changes again to the weight shifting to the outside wheels. ALWAYS keep in mind that the weight ballance is CONSTANTLY changing as you drive depending on your inputs on the gas, brakes and steering. So we are off the brakes and entering a turn. The weight is transfering in two directions (to the outside of the car and from front to back) If you went in real hot the rear will start to feel like it wants to step out. AT THIS POINT A GOOD DRIVER KNOWS TO GENTLY ROLL THE THROTTLE ON TO CONTINUE THE PROCESS OF TRANSFERING THE WEIGHT TO THE REAR WHEELS so as to load them and let them take a set into the turn. A less experienced driver will NOT hit the throttle at best or try to hit the brakes at worst. This will generally cause the car to swap ends (and generate complaints of how evil the S2000 handles).
The handling is COUNTER-INTUITIVE because as you get yourself into a butt-clenching situation (as described above) YOU NEED TO ROLL ON MORE GAS NOT LESS. It also happens to be the defining moment in your driving career. Once you take the leap of faith that the physics of these driving dynamics won't let you down and you actully roll on the gas you become a hundred times the driver than you were.
THINGS TO REMEMBER!
IT IS OF THE UTMOST IMPORTANCE THAT ALL YOUR INPUTS BE SMOOTH!
You don't "Stomp" on the brakes or the gas. It is important you ease the brakes and the throttle on and off. This keeps the weight transfer smooth and upsets the car on it's suspension less. In the example above the transfer of weight from full braking prior to the turn to full acceleration exiting the turn should be smooth and continuous. This will come with practice.
The first few times you try this your adrenaline will try to get the best of you. It is hard to have smooth subtle control inputs when you are on an adrenaline rush. This is why you should be practicing this in an empty parking lot with plenty of run off room.
The S2000 is such a razor sharp driving tool that all control inputs need to be smooth and precise otherwise the car will feel unsettled. The faster you drive the LESS input is required.
This is one of the most demanding cars (it demands you to be smooth and precise) to drive well. It is NOT forgiving of drivers who are not. Don't missinterpet this though. Anyone can drive it around at 90% under ideal conditions. It IS demanding and unforgiving in less than ideal traction conditions or when driving at the limits.
It is a car worth mastering because when you get it right there is not much else out there that compares.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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From: Catonsville
Lots of arguments on what's causing the oversteer- tires, weather, driver, weight transfer...... all play a role. But ultimately we each need to know ourselves as well as our own cars. A safe, and very fun way to do this is to spend $20 at your local autocross and explore your limits where nothing can get damaged and nobody can get hurt. Try it on nice sunny weekends as well as cold/rainy ones. Best case scenario?- get your kicks at autocross events and or track time, then take it easy on the streets remembering that other lives are at stake.
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 9,033
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From: South of the pier, Huntington Beach, CA
Welcome back Beig. Interesting thread.
This weight transfer has another factor I have not seen mentioned in this thread. The torsen rearend. In a hard corner most of the power will be to one wheel, the outside wheel. The inside wheel while unweighted will spin and when the weight transfers back towards to the inside wheel, it relieves the outside wheel of the excess weight (traction). With the inside wheel spinning and the outside wheel being unweighted, both will spin causing no traction in the rear at all and the rear to immediately come around.
This weight transfer has another factor I have not seen mentioned in this thread. The torsen rearend. In a hard corner most of the power will be to one wheel, the outside wheel. The inside wheel while unweighted will spin and when the weight transfers back towards to the inside wheel, it relieves the outside wheel of the excess weight (traction). With the inside wheel spinning and the outside wheel being unweighted, both will spin causing no traction in the rear at all and the rear to immediately come around.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,610
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From: Clearlake, CA
That leap of faith on how to handle the weight transfer is where I still have the most difficulty on track days. Need to have a track day w/very few cars on a track w/safe run off points so I can practice "loosing" it and then recovering.
Oh, and smooth inputs and trusting my brakes (never had an ABS vehicle before).
My instincts are basically correct from driving the mid-engine Bertone, but my recovery from the rear sliding, while it works, is definately anything but smooth.
Oh, and smooth inputs and trusting my brakes (never had an ABS vehicle before).
My instincts are basically correct from driving the mid-engine Bertone, but my recovery from the rear sliding, while it works, is definately anything but smooth.
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Joined: Oct 2000
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From: SoCal
Originally posted by lane
That leap of faith on how to handle the weight transfer is where I still have the most difficulty on track days.
That leap of faith on how to handle the weight transfer is where I still have the most difficulty on track days.
I have found this article very insightful and interesting: http://www.esbconsult.com.au/ogden/locost/...ors/phors23.htm
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From: :spam:u
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Prolene
[B] Precise trail braking can make a big improvement in lap times; the precise balancing of braking and turning forces in the first part of a turn, allowing one to have more speed into a turn, rather than getting all the braking done before turn-in.
I have found this article very insightful and interesting:
[B] Precise trail braking can make a big improvement in lap times; the precise balancing of braking and turning forces in the first part of a turn, allowing one to have more speed into a turn, rather than getting all the braking done before turn-in.
I have found this article very insightful and interesting: