eggman51

Hey Folks,

First time post here. Planning mid-life crisis car purchase, have settled on an S2000. I love the idea of the F20C motor and the 9k redline.

It seems like the car I want is a 2005 LHD AP1 Facelift in Suzuka Blue (or the euro equivalent). It seems like that would give me the F20C motor along with most of the AP2 changes (but not the 2006 MY changes, some of which seem undesirable to me).

Is it feasible to look for such a car? And where would one look for this?

Thanks in advance.

Chuck S

Opinions vary, otherwise we'd all drink the same brand of beer and be married to the same woman! I think you could "build" a car like this but shipping one from overseas?

Why anyone "loves the idea" of a 9000rpm (actually 8800) redline (rather than 8400rpm and more mid range torque) is beyond me. What's undesirable about DBW (tuneable ECU), DRL, VSA, etc.? (These are items I specifically appreciate, especially now that I'm tuned with a 3600rpm VTEC engagement). Yep, I own an '06 and only shopped for '06 or later.

-- Chuck

captain slowly

The reason people (like me) want a AP1 is because it drives and feels more raw than a AP2. Yes, the AP2 is objectively better, but so is the Evo X compared to the Evo IX. Better car, yes. More fun, no. I couldn't care less about DRL, VSA. This car is a toy, not a daily, so it needs to behave like a toy.

Chuck S

We're pushing thread drift here but no one has yet defined "more raw" to me just 'cuz the rev limiter has an extra 400 rpm (8800-8400=400) in it. Referring strictly to the engine here as the OP doesn't want a pre-2003 chassis, he wants the enhanced 2004+ chassis with larger wheels and less oversteer bias than the earlier cars. Infatuated with the "9000rpm" speedo though. If ya want "raw" handling just fit crappy tires and slide the corners. It's fun!

-- Chuck

coop3422

Did the engine type change in different countries? F20C was 99-03, F22C was 04-09. At least in North America. My understanding was the rest of the world kept the F20C for the life of production. You mentioned 05 AP1 so I'm assuming it is different where you are?

GuthNW

Chuck, I'm guessing that you're having a harder time understanding why some might prefer the higher revving nature of the F20C over the F22C1 because you weren't even able to embrace the nature of the stock F22C1. You wanted more torque down low and that's cool. Some guys like to be able to wind engines out as much as possible and simply aren't as worried about low end torque as much as you are. I'm not sure where you're drawing your specifications from as I believe that it's 9000 RPM to the rev limiter in the F20C and 8200 RPM to the rev limiter in the F22C1. That is a considerable difference in my book (double the amount that you are always pointing out).

I own an unmodified AP2 and really enjoy working the gearbox to keep the engine in the upper reaches of the powerband. I don't often bump up against the rev limiter and I personally don't feel the need to modify the car. But I have little doubt that the F20C engine would provide a notably different driving difference and can respect the fact that this is just what some guys prefer. To each their own.

Hfreak

I have both and the F20C combined with the handling of the AP1 suspension is completely different than my 2006, almost like two different animals. Opinions are like........, everyone has one but you need to experience both to appreciate which will suit your purpose best. Great points in your post GuthNW.

darcyw

well, if you can just wait for another year or 2, you can import any vehicle that's 15 yrs old. Right now, us Canadians can import JDM, EDM etc older than 2003. In 2019, 2004, in 2020, 2005 MY.

check eBay in Europe or any number of Japanese importer out of BC.

good luck
darcy

GuthNW

I believe that people elsewhere in the world received the AP2 just as we did here in North America, Those cars included the chassis and suspension changes along with the wider/larger 17" wheels, body (bumper) changes, interior changes, etc.,etc. but they still retained the F20C engine. So basically the AP2 cars elsewhere were just like the AP2 cars here in the USA but with the F20C engine instead of the F22C1 engine. While the engine represents the biggest difference between the two versions here in the N. America, there are a lot of other reasons why someone might prefer an AP1 or an AP2 besides just the engine itself (it's simply the most notable difference in our case). I would have thought that an '05 would be an AP2 anywhere in the world, but the engine that came with the car would vary depending on the country. But then I've been wrong plenty of times before and will surely be again so please take my comments with a large grain of salt. I have little doubt that someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

GuthNW

By the way, just because Honda has termed a change an "enhancement", I don't necessarily look at it this way. Yes, when it comes to the S2000 they made a number of changes to the car including changes to the chassis, the suspension , the wheels, exterior and interior bits, the engine (here in N. America) and the throttle mechanism over the years and most of those things were viewed as enhancements at the time they were introduced (they were certainly marketed as enhancements). But I tend to see these things as changes as opposed to enhancements, especially as these cars age. This is not intended as a rant, but simply an observation on my part after following this forum closely for well over a year now and actually owning an S2000 and getting much more familiar with these cars than I ever imagined.

Some would say that the VSA, that came on these cars from 2006 - 2009, is an enhancement and in terms of the functionality that it provides, I suppose that's true and it's hard to argue otherwise as it can be disabled. Some might point out that this is just one more thing to go wrong. For me it comes at the expense of requiring the drive-by-wire system which I'm personally not a fan of (and I'm not referring to anything to do with the feel of the throttle response). But I get why some guys prefer the DBW system as it relates to the ease of tuning that it provides — that actually makes sense to me if you are wanting to tune these cars. Other guys actually might like some aspects of the F22C1's powerband, but can't stand the heavier flywheel that it comes with. Just because the wheels are larger on the AP2 cars, it doesn't mean that they are an enhancement as some might prefer the look of the 16" wheels and more importantly the feel of the way they impact the cars handling. The thing is, not everyone is looking for the same exact thing out of their S2000 ownership experience.

To me, there are a number of "differences" between these cars as you compare the various model years. Some people are going to prefer certain model years and other people will prefer other model years. Someone could view the glass rear window as an enhancement depending on how they use the car, but others might prefer the originality and even the look of the plastic rear window (they might never even see the rear window if they only drive the car with the top down). I have a preference for certain model years, but I don't necissarily consider them to be better than any others. They are simply better for me. I can definitely appreciate why someone else might prefer different model years different than I do.

The truth is, if my S2000 was stolen and I were needing to find a replacement car, then I would look at it this way. If my choices were limited only to a number of S2000's of various model years then I would choose certain model years over others because of the differences pointed out above. However, if my choices at the time were limited to any number of other cars vs only one well kept S2000 (of any model year), then I'd choose the S2000 regardless of the model year. Again, others might prefer to modify their cars and that's cool with me. I on the other hand don't tend to modify my cars and in the case of the S2000 I've embraced what Honda has blessed us with. The changes between these cars seems far more significant when we are only discussing the S2000 and no other cars. But when we are discussing cars in general, those changes seem quite a bit smaller to me by comparison and I'm sure that I could enjoy any S2000 that's been well kept regardless of the model year. Others might differ and that's fine. This is just the way that i look at things. If I had the money, I'd own a 2003 S2000 in addition to the 2005 I currently enjoy (and I do enjoy it very much).