Gears
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,403
Likes: 6
From: DFW, TX
Ok...he is right in what he is saying, he just considers HUGE differences to be worthwile, where as I an probably others care about that extra .1sec
At least you guys didn't have to argue with engineers that gearing in a manual gearbox car is linear...they still don't believe me
At least you guys didn't have to argue with engineers that gearing in a manual gearbox car is linear...they still don't believe me
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 9,792
Likes: 5
From: Milwaukee Area
Originally Posted by mikegarrison,Aug 23 2005, 04:25 PM
6 cars at 100mph is what, half a second? Out of 14? 3% difference?
Like I said, you can tweak the performance to optimize for particular tasks. That's a pretty small gain, except in the world of drag racing (all racing, really) where EXTREMELY small margins are important.
And by the time you get to a half mile, what would the result be? How about when you get to a mile? Two miles? But you don't care, right? Because the race track is only 1/4 mile long. That's what I mean about optimizing for one particular situation.
It's not like changing the gears suddenly turns the S2K into a Viper or a Daytona Prototype or something. The car is still what it is, you've just optimized it a little for the task you are interested in.
Adding F/I, now that's making a more significant change. For that matter, how big is this difference compared to tire choice?
Like I said, you can tweak the performance to optimize for particular tasks. That's a pretty small gain, except in the world of drag racing (all racing, really) where EXTREMELY small margins are important.
And by the time you get to a half mile, what would the result be? How about when you get to a mile? Two miles? But you don't care, right? Because the race track is only 1/4 mile long. That's what I mean about optimizing for one particular situation.
It's not like changing the gears suddenly turns the S2K into a Viper or a Daytona Prototype or something. The car is still what it is, you've just optimized it a little for the task you are interested in.
Adding F/I, now that's making a more significant change. For that matter, how big is this difference compared to tire choice?
but it is most certainly faster than stock. your original post made it sound like they would still be even or about even. (about even to me would be maybe 1 car difference by 100mph to me)
and as for the result by 1 mile or half or 2 miles? the same if not greater. why? because my top speed is still about the same top speed as a stock S2000 is drag limited to. so in other words, i'll continue to out acclerate one all the way to my top speed (not that it matters), which is also about what the other car's top speed will be.
so what's wrong with that? so what if i like my car to be a bit faster than stock. .4 seconds in the 1/4 mile or whatever it comes out to be is fine with me. not bad for $700 and remaining n/a. no other n/a mods on the S2000 will get you that kind of performance for the dollar. so what's wrong with it?
your first post made it sound like there was really no difference, when there is a substantial (IMO) difference. 6 cars is 6 cars. as for my straight line performance to other cars? i can stay even with a comptech SC'd S2000 til about 60-70mph. i can stay with an E46 M3 til about 70 as well.
just because, to you, that doesn't matter, doesn't mean that everyone else shouldn't care either. to me, i like the performance gain i have acheived from the gears. i think it's a big difference, you think it's a small difference. oh well? regardless of how big or small people perceive the difference to be, the bottom line is there is a difference, and the 4.57 geared S2000 is faster.
tire choice will not make any difference from a roll, and from a stop it would be minimal unless you go with something like DR's that may knock a tenth or two off, but your trap speed will remain the same.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 9,792
Likes: 5
From: Milwaukee Area
I would not deny that some speed intervals will be improved. On average though, given a series of tracks, a gearing change can have a neutral effect or worse. Baseless assertions without data add little to this topic.
What you do could hardly be called scientific. Try some races where you end up at 6300 rpms for example(in different gears) and see how the results compare. It would take a much more controlled environment for this to be considered anything more than a hasty generalization.
another example. i raced greg (aka pushin9) from a 75mph roll. I had to start in 4th, while he was in 3rd. yet I still pulled on him and by 120 I had at least 1-2 cars on him. but according to you, he should have won.
in this instance, he has a gearing advantage for the first 15mph of the race. however, the gearing advantage is very small. but once he goes to 4th, the gearing advantage I have is 3 times what he had, which I why I still end up faster.
What you are doing is the exact opposite of what you are accusing Mike of doing. You claim he is ignoring experience and focusing on science. You are clearly trying to aply your experience to science instead of the other way around. This will not get you far. What invalid conclusion do you think I've made about gearing?
as for "what invalid conclusion" you've made:
Citing the habits of Mustang & Camaro owners is not proof. They are obviously willing to sacrifice many aspects of a car to feel like they are pushed into the back of the seat. That "feeling" does not equal more speed.
Focusing entirely on 0-60 and 1/4 mile times (or streetracing) is misleading. You need to compare other intervals that don't always place you at the peak of your powerband at the end of the race for instance.
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 6,585
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From: Roseville, CA
Originally Posted by mikegarrison,Aug 23 2005, 02:41 PM
I've been on board the very first flight of an airplane. All airplanes have first flights, and all people on board those airplanes are trusting that the engineers did in fact "get the science crap" correct.