Something someone in another thread made me think about something...

They said that Honda treats all engine failures as if the driver was guilty until proven innocent...

Well, let's turn that around instead...

Honda generally has a pretty good quality of workmanship. So, in that case, they assume that their manufacturing is innocent until proven guilty. Nothing to do with the driver at all.

What do you think?

 

I think the warranty is a contract and Honda honors its contracts. There are exceptions or gray areas. I know of many, many cases of admitted abuse where Honda covered repairs as "one time customer courtesy repairs out of warranty." For example, one s2ki member blew up his diff at the track, trying to go for better 1/4 mile times. Honda covered it as courtesy. Another owner bent his valves on a missed downshift. Honda covered.

In my "short block replacement thread" most owners had Honda cover the cost of the new short block even if Honda suspected owner negligence by running the engine with too little oil. That isn't to say that all the times Honda suspected owner negligence there really was owner negligence. It is just to point out that Honda covered when they believe they shouldn't have had to.

Another owner wrote me today that her bent valves repair ($3,000) was being covered mostly by Honda, but partly by her. Honda believes the only way this damage could have happened was owner negligence from over-revving. The owner does not believe she ever over-revved her car. None of us know what actually happened, but Honda is picking up most of the cost.

There are a few cases of Honda standing pat and not covering what they believe they are not obligated to cover and the owners having to hire attornies to get Honda to perform as specified in the warranty-contract. That is bound to happen in any business. It would be nice if it wasn't true but it is.

 

Sunder, if your basic premise was correct, then every defect within the warranty period would be the burden of the owner to prove. If your steering rack went, Honda could claim you must turn the wheel when the car isn't rolling. Clutch starts slipping at 10k, you must be doing hole shots. Bad paint? You must have put something on it. Dead battery? You must leave your accesories on after you turn the engine off. Is this how you want your warranty to work?

No thanks, I'm not going for it. Honda should just put a rev recorder on the car that records the highest RPM the car has attained. Then owners wouldn't have to prove the unprovable, Honda wouldn't have to fight with customers and we wouldn't have to read all the threads about "I didn't do nuthin' and my car blew up."

 

Actually Honda has a fantastic reputation regarding doing work on the car after the warranty has expired, it's known as a "good will" service. My '97 Integra required a new clutch at 58,000 miles, just 8000 miles out of warranty. Because I pressed the point that I don't abuse my clutch, Honda (Acura) paid for half of the $600 or so repair. Honda believes in and rewards owner loyalty, this is just another way of showing it. I don't know how other auto makers approach this kind of issue, but knowing Honda operates this way is one more reason for me to stick by them.

 

I think that they just made a smart business decision. Actually, I'd still be mad that I had to cover about $300, but I couldn't say they were obligated to do more than what they did.

When I got my S2000, I found that one of the wheels had what looked like a scratch in it. I knew that I didn't put a scratch in the wheel, so I took it back to the dealership. The service guy said that it wasn't a manufacturing defect, so it was not covered. I said that it didn't happen when I had the car, so I want to talk to the service manager. I had to come back another day. I then examined the wheel and was able to determine that the defect had actually happened before the final machining of the wheel surface. I took the wheel only back to the service manager and showed him the defect and the fact that the final machining happened after the defect was already in the wheel. He said that he had to show it to his district service manager, so I left the wheel with him. A couple of days later he called and told me that Honda was going to cover it as a good will gesture because they value me as a customer, but they don't acknowledge that it was a manufacturing defect. I told the service manager that it was a manufacturing defect as I showed him and they can call it a good will replacement if they want, as long as they do what they are obligated to do. I got my wheel back and put it on my car.

The more I think about it though, it really pissed me off that they took the position that I must have damaged the wheel and am therefore a liar and they are taking the high road and doing me a favor by replacing the wheel. Even if they really thought that they should have been smart enough to say it was a defect that was being replaced under warranty. I've owned three Nissans and have had a total of four warranty repairs on them. Nissan's service has never questioned their obligation. This includes a Pathfinder 3rd brake light that cracked and fell off (they could have said I hit it with something), a broken thread in my 240SX seat (they could have said I broke it by poking the seat with something), and an Altima power steering pump that went bad right after the car was in a wreck ($7k worth of damage). Also, note that each of these warranty repairs only took one trip, as opposed to the three that it took me to get my S2000 wheel replaced. The thing that sets Honda Motor Company apart from the American manufactures is their design work. That's why I bought an S2000. American Honda is no better than the American car companies and probably isn't that good when it comes to customer service.

 

I can't believe someone would be accused of over revving.
The car has a REV Limiter . The car was designed to be revved .

 

One business flaw with this logic: Manufacturing isn't creating the revenue. The revenue is generated by marketing and sales of the product.

So looking through the eyes of business ethics, would you rather offend your manufacturing processes or offend your customer base?

If you offend your manufacturing process, the worst case is a very expensive re-tool and re-engineer of all the processes within manufacturing.

If you offend your customer base, the worst case scenario is that you've potentially lost 9 paying customers (the one offended, and the eight he/she spread the negativity to)...althoug in this day and age, that ratio may even be higher seeing what the internet role plays. If enough of your customer base is offended, then your potential to lose portions of business groups in the company are great. That bad rap will follow you, and eventually you'll have to either close your door, or rebrand yourself...which is VERY expensive.

I say, prove the customer guilty and assume innocence....but hey, what do I know?

 

I have never had a problem in the 9 years I have owned Hondas. A totla of 5 during that time. I have been somewhat lucky I guess, but I am friends with the Service Manager. That may help as well.

 

I found a damaged wheel cap on my first wash, that I didn't notice when I picked it up.
4 month later, at my oil change, I claimed the damage and wanted the cap replaced.
Well, no questions ask by Honda! They replaced it, and so they should have. I know I didn't do it, but they didn't. I have enough money to buy it, if I would have damaged it. Needless to say, I am happy with Honda or should I say with Vacaville Honda.

 

When talking with the local service advisor about me getting a used S2000 he said it was "Case by case". If you have a car with trouble on the 1-2 shift, some times they take things apart and find badly bent shift forks. In those cases the owner will be paying for the work. If not, then it is on Honda.

I have heard they can "flag the VIN" or a car that has been abused. I could find not evidence of this, as I ask the service guy when he check VIN numbers for me pre-purchase. If the car had been into HIS shop he could tell me about any work, but other than that he could confirm in-service date, warranty in effect, extended warranty, and any recalls.

Dennis