how bad is a hard launch really on the car?
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From: Southern California
Originally Posted by Wisconsin S2k,Jun 18 2005, 07:06 AM
i think people act as if these cars will shatter themselves to pieces if you drive them agressively.
you always hear the stories about those who broke this or that. (and the guy who posted his pics and story in here is SUPERCHARGED so he's running a lot more power than most)
as said, the WORST thing you can do is SLIP the clutch. you'll just fry your clutch. after that the second worst thing you can do, is BOG a launch. it's MORE stress on the drive train than a proper launch.
lastly since everyone is so quick to say "oh don't do this you'll break this or that" let me give you MY personal experience.
My first S2000 drove to about 44,000 miles with WELL OVER 1000 clutch dumps. I NEVER HAD A SINGLE PROBLEM. in fact, I had the clutch tsb done at about 40,000 miles and the clutch still looked brand new. we also pulled apart my diff, and checked my axles, and guess what. NO problems. didn't look ANY different than any other S2000.
On this S2000 I am on 45,000 miles and probably close to 600+ clutch dumps so far. Guess what, again, NO PROBLEMS.
So if dumping the clutch is so "horrid" to our cars, why have I had 2 that have had no issues? not to mention everyone else that's never had a problem? IMO, it's from improper launching or people with FI launching. (obviously manufacturer defects aside)
you always hear the stories about those who broke this or that. (and the guy who posted his pics and story in here is SUPERCHARGED so he's running a lot more power than most)
as said, the WORST thing you can do is SLIP the clutch. you'll just fry your clutch. after that the second worst thing you can do, is BOG a launch. it's MORE stress on the drive train than a proper launch.
lastly since everyone is so quick to say "oh don't do this you'll break this or that" let me give you MY personal experience.
My first S2000 drove to about 44,000 miles with WELL OVER 1000 clutch dumps. I NEVER HAD A SINGLE PROBLEM. in fact, I had the clutch tsb done at about 40,000 miles and the clutch still looked brand new. we also pulled apart my diff, and checked my axles, and guess what. NO problems. didn't look ANY different than any other S2000.
On this S2000 I am on 45,000 miles and probably close to 600+ clutch dumps so far. Guess what, again, NO PROBLEMS.
So if dumping the clutch is so "horrid" to our cars, why have I had 2 that have had no issues? not to mention everyone else that's never had a problem? IMO, it's from improper launching or people with FI launching. (obviously manufacturer defects aside)
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From: Milwaukee Area
[QUOTE=Chazmo,Jun 18 2005, 11:30 AM] I think you've been lucky, WI, but that's great to hear that the car can take the abuse.
I'm sure you're right that proper technique has a ton to do with how well things will hold up.
I'm sure you're right that proper technique has a ton to do with how well things will hold up.
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From: Murrieta
Ill ad my 2 cents here... god knows Ive dumped a few clutches.
I had my 2000 S2000 for a year, and put about 16K miles on it.
67K - 83K. I probably dumped the clutch about 100 times.
Not THAT many, but plenty.
The car never flitched as a result, but it was developing a serious vibration under hard cornering when I sold it.
That being said, I do honestly feel that the S2000 is a bit more frail, fragile than other cars of the type. Examples:
My good good buddies 2000 S2K motor either kicked a rod, bent a valve, or spun a bearing or something along those lines. He hasnt opened it up yet. I dont suspect a rod, as theres no block hole. The car has less than 50K miles, and when this occured he was getting on the freeway at about 7300RPM.
Also, we see blown diffs and such relatively often on this board.
My ol' 94 Miata had 133K miles when I sold it, had it for about 4 years and dumped the clutch so so so many times, SO many times without any failures of any kind.
Absolutely bulletproof drivetrain. (even turbo'ed at up to 16-18PSI)
I had a 300ZX Twin Turbo, trannys syncros were crapped (170K miles on them), but I never worried about a rear end failure in that car. I lit up those 245's hundreds of times without any hint of the car caring.
Again, just my 2 cents.
edit> I should also add that I had a 91 MR2 that took a good beating.
It had 106K miles when I sold it, Original clutch starting to wear, but very very stout car.
I had my 2000 S2000 for a year, and put about 16K miles on it.
67K - 83K. I probably dumped the clutch about 100 times.
Not THAT many, but plenty.
The car never flitched as a result, but it was developing a serious vibration under hard cornering when I sold it.
That being said, I do honestly feel that the S2000 is a bit more frail, fragile than other cars of the type. Examples:
My good good buddies 2000 S2K motor either kicked a rod, bent a valve, or spun a bearing or something along those lines. He hasnt opened it up yet. I dont suspect a rod, as theres no block hole. The car has less than 50K miles, and when this occured he was getting on the freeway at about 7300RPM.
Also, we see blown diffs and such relatively often on this board.
My ol' 94 Miata had 133K miles when I sold it, had it for about 4 years and dumped the clutch so so so many times, SO many times without any failures of any kind.
Absolutely bulletproof drivetrain. (even turbo'ed at up to 16-18PSI)
I had a 300ZX Twin Turbo, trannys syncros were crapped (170K miles on them), but I never worried about a rear end failure in that car. I lit up those 245's hundreds of times without any hint of the car caring.
Again, just my 2 cents.
edit> I should also add that I had a 91 MR2 that took a good beating.
It had 106K miles when I sold it, Original clutch starting to wear, but very very stout car.
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Originally Posted by mad-dog-one,Jun 18 2005, 09:40 AM
I hope you disclosed the 1,000 clutch-dumps to prospective buyers when you were selling your first S. I'm delighted to know that you are unaware of damage from the aggressive driving, but I wouldn't have wanted to buy a used car with that history.
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From: Yaxley
Originally Posted by Lead_Foot,Jun 19 2005, 01:22 AM
Well Said. I am in the market for getting a used s2000 and I definatley do not want to buy one knowing it has been driven aggressively.
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From: By da Beach NJ
yes i'm supercharged so that did not help. I think the reason my axles broke was b/c I just replaced clutch and diff so the next thing to go was the axles. They were the oldest part of my drivetrain except the trans and driveshaft. I am running 275/30/19 in the rear. The pavement was very hot and sticky. I also have done many launches with out any problems. My First diff either broke a bearing, or the LSD is toast. I will not know till I open it up. But it was driveable when I removed it. It was just very noisy on slow turns.
I have to agree that most of the time it is driver error when things break. If you plan on driving the car in this manner be prepared to pay out of pocket to fix it if it breaks. I would never take my car to the dealer and try to blame it on their car being week. They would look at the car and laugh in my face.
I have to agree that most of the time it is driver error when things break. If you plan on driving the car in this manner be prepared to pay out of pocket to fix it if it breaks. I would never take my car to the dealer and try to blame it on their car being week. They would look at the car and laugh in my face.
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From: Yorba Linda, CA
Originally Posted by Chazmo,Jun 18 2005, 09:30 AM
I think you've been lucky, WI, but that's great to hear that the car can take the abuse.
I'm sure you're right that proper technique has a ton to do with how well things will hold up. We have several guys in the New England community that are experts at launching the S2000, and have had reasonable luck too.
That said, in S2000 Talk when someone makes a post like this I feel obligated to be negative. I think you should too, and here's why:
1. A lot of people do break their car. Diffs and clutches seem to be the things I've seen reported most on the board over the years, not to mention Ken's pix above;
2. It makes me angry when these folks end up taking their car to a dealer and then whining about warrantee denials, etc. It's not only frustrating for them, but for the whole community. We all know there are legitimate failures that Honda should cover and then there are abusive failures that are grey territory.
3. The overall ownership experience for these people becomes tarnished because they messed up their cars and then had to pay out-of-pocket to fix 'em -- which they should've been prepared for in the first place.
4. Dealerships get blamed for shoddy support of the community, when they shouldn't have been bothered in the first place.
5. Honda loses a customer.
Just my thoughts, WI. I've never launched my car, and I don't feel any need to. I'm not bigoted about it, because I think it's a cool thing to watch, but I'd rather my car keep running great until I really do become an old man.
I'm sure you're right that proper technique has a ton to do with how well things will hold up. We have several guys in the New England community that are experts at launching the S2000, and have had reasonable luck too.
That said, in S2000 Talk when someone makes a post like this I feel obligated to be negative. I think you should too, and here's why:
1. A lot of people do break their car. Diffs and clutches seem to be the things I've seen reported most on the board over the years, not to mention Ken's pix above;
2. It makes me angry when these folks end up taking their car to a dealer and then whining about warrantee denials, etc. It's not only frustrating for them, but for the whole community. We all know there are legitimate failures that Honda should cover and then there are abusive failures that are grey territory.
3. The overall ownership experience for these people becomes tarnished because they messed up their cars and then had to pay out-of-pocket to fix 'em -- which they should've been prepared for in the first place.
4. Dealerships get blamed for shoddy support of the community, when they shouldn't have been bothered in the first place.
5. Honda loses a customer.
Just my thoughts, WI. I've never launched my car, and I don't feel any need to. I'm not bigoted about it, because I think it's a cool thing to watch, but I'd rather my car keep running great until I really do become an old man.
HOWEVER,
Honda shouldnt be advertising 5.5 0-60 times or 13.8-14.2 1/4 mile times as well.
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From: Central Massachusetts
Hmm... 9K, are you sure it's Honda doing that advertising? As I recall, it was the trade rags who were doing launches that reported these numbers. Honda has no control over what the journalists do to the cars when they road test them. For that matter, at least when I bought the car in 2002, I don't recall Honda doing any advertising for the S2000.
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From: Milwaukee Area
well if that's the case, then no car manufacturer should advertise 0-60 times. (honda does not advertise a 1/4 mile time to my knowledge). but regardless, all manufacturers that advertise a 0-60 time, yet will deny warranty for abuse, are technically upholding a double standard. "here the 0-60 on this car is x.x seconds.... but don't actually try it or we'll void your warranty". honda is not alone on that one.
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Central Massachusetts
I guess all I'm saying is "forewarned is forearmed." Folks reading this thread are getting the info and can decide how they want to treat their own car. This is why we are here. 
p.s./ Does Honda advertise 0-60 times for the S2000?? That rings no bells to me.
p.s./ Does Honda advertise 0-60 times for the S2000?? That rings no bells to me.