[QUOTE=Hockey,Jul 12 2004, 07:19 AM]Hey Chris,

How did it go at Qualcomm this weekend?

 

......ok so there seems to be conflicting reports here....the first and most important thing is to understand WHY you lost the back end in the first place. It is important for you to understand what you did wrong and most importantly WHY it was wrong. Once you understand how to prevent the back end from coming loose then you can learn what to do in the event that it does come loose.

So lets start with a simple question.....as best as you can remember, what exactly happened before the back-end came loose. Describe things like, speed in the corner, did you shift, brake or let off the throttle in the corner. How did the car feel to you right before the back-end came loose, how did it feel right after it came loose. The goal here is to help you understand what was going on and why....

Still none of this will be a substitute for a real driving school.... Afterall most of learning, is learning to listen to you car and understand when you push it too far.

 

I was going 40 mph in a straight line approaching the freeway onramp on my right.

I slowed to about 25-30 still in 3rd and took the turn cause it's a yield (no traffic) and the on ramp is down hill with 2 lanes (carpool).

After taking the turn I downshifted to 2nd after I THOUGHT I was straightened out.

After shifting to 2nd I let the clutch up normally and added throttle. That's when the ass slipped out. My immediate reaction was to countersteer while pumping the brakes. I guess you could say it worked to a degree cause I'm still here and the car is fine.

It was 0600 am so there was probably dew on the road.

What I was looking for was peoples experience with rear wheel drive and how they corrected slipping.

I'm not a reckless driver by any means... but again...this was a wake up call. Maybe I should say "we could ALL learn from MY mistakes" especially new S owners regardless of what year. For you seasoned drivers....you can say it now....."I TOLD YOU SO"

 

I don't think anyone is saying "I told you so" or "you'll shoot your eye out kid!"

Around the time I bought this car, I used to comb through every one of these mishap posts, trying to learn from others mistakes and figure out what kind of precautions I should take when driving an S2000. I also came from a background of driving RWD vehicles back in the 80s, driving low power FWD economy cars for the last 15 years, then having to relearn RWD. I knew there was an opportunity for disaster if I wasn't careful.

So, I think you've performed a service to the community by posting your story. I'm glad it turned out alright for you in the end. There are MANY other stories on this website that ended differently.

 

The first question that comes to my mind is:

How much tread are on your tires?

 

Here's the backseat analysis. No "I told you so", everybody has to lose control to know how it feels. It is just best to do in a controlled environment like a school or autocross. One of two things happened.

1) The downshift was not rev matched, by blipping the throttle during the shift, or it was not a perfect rev match. The clutch engagement will try to mechanically rev-up then engine and/or spin the tires. What actually happens depends on how much grip the tires have on the road. Either way the car will "jerk" or unsettle and the tires will get a shock. If the tires' grip is exceeded the back end will slide out in a turn. If this happens in a straight line nothing really bad should of happened, but it could be that one of rear tires spun first causing the back end to shift suddenly.

2) The downshift and rev-match was done correctly, but too much throttle, too quick was applied afterwards. Spin the tires and the backend comes out, see 1).

Pumping the brakes was the wrong thing to do. First thing the car has ABS, if you have to use it, stand on the brake the ABS will pump the brake better than you could. The second thing, if the goal was to regain control and continue, braking threw weight forward worsening the rear end grip and making the oversteer even worse.

If the slide is recoverable, maintain throttle to keep the car balanced and steer where you want to go. I hesitate to call this counter steering, since it doesn't really indicate how much you should be steering. Just spinning the wheel the other way can lead to overcorrections and wagging the tail uncontrollably.

If the slide is unrecoverable, clutch in, full brake and ride it out in a straight line. At least you can decide what direction the car will go and stop as soon as possible.

 

based on the original post, i'd say you are very lucky to escape this without smacking the back end in a guardrail! as previous posts said, no sudden throttle, steering, or brake inputs while mid-corner...don't shift mid-corner too while you're at it!

 

Brand new tires....i've owned the car for less than 1 month.

I definately understand that point of braking causing even more weight shift to the front further increasing the slide.

BINGO!!!! for the Rev Matching.....yeah....I didn't double clutch when I should have been. I don't always rev match but I'm going to start now as an everyday practice. I'm positive that's what it was, because I didn't WOT and even letting the clutch out normal on an uneven rev match would cause the spin/slide.

I appreciate everyones insight.....

BE SAFE OUT THERE!!

 

i dont really know the absolute limits of my car, cause i have never been on a track , so i never pusg my car in the corners too much
ill be sure to practice in an empty parking lot!

 

Downshifting should take place in a straight line BEFORE entering the corner. It sounds to me that 3rd gear was the wrong choice entering the corner. You should have entered in 2nd and slowly squeezed on the power as the corner straightened out. By squeezing the gas, you are applying weight, and therefore traction to the back wheels. Any abrupt change in weight transfer will cause the rear to get light and come around. You may have still be in the turn when you put the clutch in to select 2nd. The weight transferred to the front and the back started to slide.

It's great fun to use weight transfer to control the car, but as others have said, learn it at an autocross or driver's school.