Hello ladies and gents. I recently sold my 05 and got an 07 and I've noticed, from how I've heel-toed before, that it's tremendously harder/inconsistent with, what feels like a different distance between the brake and throttle pedals.

Now, this is probably because I didn't do it the "right" way. I learned feeling comfortable putting the ball of my big toe on my brake pedal, and the right side of my foot on the throttle. Worked just fine before, even under hard braking. (I've noticed this is similar to this video of senna in the NSX http://youtu.be/8By2AEsGAhU ). friends of mine, who have been into driving/motorsports much longer than me, have apparently always done it full initial-D style, horizontal, literal "hell-and-toe" method.

I guess I'm wondering
A) did the distance between the two pedals really change from going on to DBW? And if so can you change the distance yourself?
B) how do you do it?
C) is there a "right" way or a "wrong" way?

Sorry for the wall, lol.

 

A) Don't know.

B) Toes on the brake heel on the throttle. Initial D style is overly dramatic IMO. I know my foot can't twist horizontal like that.

C) Whatever way that gives you the results you're looking for.

 

From what I've had described to me and experienced between driving a throttle cable care and DBW, you need to give it more throttle with the DBW, especially on an factory tuned flash. The pedal with a throttle cable car is just more sensitive and requires less throttle input to match.

 

I've been driving stick for 25 years and have yet to master this skill or even come close to doing it right for that matter. Pathetic, I know. I also found it difficult to do on a bike as well. Pulling the brake with two fingers, while blipping the throttle with your palm isn't any easier than contorting your right foot to work both the brake and gas pedal at the same time. Especially coming to the end of the front straight well into the triple digits. I really need to learn this someday, but for now, I don't do any track days, so it's not a must-have skill.

 

You can, and should, practice H&T on virtually every downshift, on every drive.

Practice makes perfect.

 

My feet can't be as big as Senna's, I can't do it that way.

I have always used the ball of my foot on the brake, & rolled my ankle, using the side just below the
ankle to work the throttle.

This has worked in everything from a Hillman Imp, to an F1 Brabham Repco.

You can't brake as effectively while mucking around this way, so I have always made only one shift.
Brake to a speed low enough to engage the gear required for the corner, then select that gear.
I won formula one & Formula 2 races driving this way, so it can't be too bad.

Incidentally I did find getting it right in the S2000 was as hard as anything I had ever driven.
This could be partly because my hearing is not too good these days & partly because of the very wide
rev range. Even in a formula 1 revving to 9700 RPM you did not use it below about 6700, so the range
was no where near as great as in our little S2000. I think this makes it harder than most cars to get
it right before you have a fair few miles experience.

 

I'm in an '07 so mine is DBW. I can still do it (I use ball of foot/side of foot method), but it's not as easy as it was in my old NA Miatas. Those were incredibly easy by comparison.

Now in my grocery-getter daily (a Hyundai Accent) I just can't do it. The height difference and space between the pedals is too great. I have to press so hard on the brake to get my foot to reach the gas that I'm generally stopped (and way too suddenly) before I can finally blip the throttle. But it's not exactly a performance car and not something I worry about heel and toeing in anyway.

That stated, I do believe the adage that practice makes perfect and one *should* be trying to do heel and toe all the time. In my Miatas, I *always* did it. Every downshift.

 

Thanks for the inputs guys. I can definitely attest to the difference from DBW and cable (obviously). But it's not so much the sensitivity as it is the "delay". (I'm sure we're talking about the same thing.) but in my experience learning dominantly on a 2007 Volvo s40; calling the DBW a delay is an understatement. The pedal placement was perfect, and it wasn't hard to get used to simply blipping the throttle either earlier, longer, or further. (Depending on the situation).

If anything I miss feeling the motor in the throttle haha it sounds ridiculous, but hitting vtec and feeling the shaking/rotating of the motor in the shifter, pedal, everything really made you feel "at one" with the car.

Anyway, I'm no pro, but I've also made habit of doing it every downshift. Only problem is I can't do light braking with heel toe-ing with the pedal distance on the '07. Not a big deal, I guess. I've noticed in more spirited driving circumstances a little more consistency as I've just practiced it. It'll come with time I suppose.

 

I have DBW and heel/toe is just fine. This is the "normal" way to heel-toe http://www.turnfast.com/images/tech_...etoestep34.gif I only do it when driving spiritedly, otherwise I just rev match without braking.

 

Make sure you get the base motion down while sitting in your driveway. Perfect practice makes perfect. If you're repeatedly practicing the wrong motion or trying to feel out the correct motion while under pressure of stopping the car safely, you're going to make very slow progress. Even with tuned DBW cars with any delay eliminated, I've found it takes more throttle "English" than with the throttle cable cars.