How to overcome numb steering feel
09-23-2008, 07:02 AM
#32
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FWIW, some interesting reading on EPS and "feel"...
http://www.autofocusasia.com/engine_chassi...er_steering.htm
Gets a bit into active steering as well, but shows some of the complexity involved in getting EPS right.
http://www.autofocusasia.com/engine_chassi...er_steering.htm
Gets a bit into active steering as well, but shows some of the complexity involved in getting EPS right.
09-25-2008, 06:43 AM
#34
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A long time ago I remember seeing someone developing some longer "quick-ratio" steering knuckles for the S. Anyone know anything about this? Maybe just this change to lowered mechanical advantage (from the steering wheel's perspective) would be enough to increase "feel", w/o messing with the EPS.
09-08-2009, 07:52 PM
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I'm going to have to bring back this thread from the dead!
I went from an '05 elise to my current '06 S2k. I love the S2K more in pretty much every way, except for steering feel!
The first tight sweeping right hand turn on an offramp I took in the S2k, I almost crapped my pants as I felt the S2k was about to fly off the road and tip over. I've had an '05 BB S2k before the Elise, so I was pretty confident in what the S2k can and can't do, but just to be safe, I took that right hander at maybe 6/10ths. Still was a pretty scary experience. Couldn't ram a pencil in my ass with a hammer. I'm pretty sure the limits of the S2k, lateral g wise, isn't too far off from my AD07 street tire'd elise was, but the way they felt was completely different.
Reducing EPS assist sounds like the most realistic bandaid, but what I'd *love* is to retrofit the 1991 NSX's rack/pinion steering into the S2k. Please, somebody, tell me it can be done!
edit: just to clarify.. i'm not saying i nearly crapped my pants because the s2k handling was so bad, it was just that i had gotten used to having the resistance in the steering wheel load up as the gs came and the elise "stuck" - when the s2k didn't have that feedback, I was a pretty weird feeling. Didn't mean to sound like I was bashing the s2k at all, I love this car! After I've been back in the s2k for a few weeks now, I'm noticing that I have to "listen" to the s2000 differently. The cues of what's happening on there, but it's like you observe rather than feel. Anyways.. love being back in the s2000, i can't stop talking about it
I went from an '05 elise to my current '06 S2k. I love the S2K more in pretty much every way, except for steering feel!
The first tight sweeping right hand turn on an offramp I took in the S2k, I almost crapped my pants as I felt the S2k was about to fly off the road and tip over. I've had an '05 BB S2k before the Elise, so I was pretty confident in what the S2k can and can't do, but just to be safe, I took that right hander at maybe 6/10ths. Still was a pretty scary experience. Couldn't ram a pencil in my ass with a hammer. I'm pretty sure the limits of the S2k, lateral g wise, isn't too far off from my AD07 street tire'd elise was, but the way they felt was completely different.
Reducing EPS assist sounds like the most realistic bandaid, but what I'd *love* is to retrofit the 1991 NSX's rack/pinion steering into the S2k. Please, somebody, tell me it can be done!
edit: just to clarify.. i'm not saying i nearly crapped my pants because the s2k handling was so bad, it was just that i had gotten used to having the resistance in the steering wheel load up as the gs came and the elise "stuck" - when the s2k didn't have that feedback, I was a pretty weird feeling. Didn't mean to sound like I was bashing the s2k at all, I love this car! After I've been back in the s2k for a few weeks now, I'm noticing that I have to "listen" to the s2000 differently. The cues of what's happening on there, but it's like you observe rather than feel. Anyways.. love being back in the s2000, i can't stop talking about it
09-09-2009, 04:37 AM
#38
Some cars like Cayman / Boxster, Miata, Evo you feel like you could drive them with your eyes closed. With the S2000, a lot of the steering feel is muted. I find myself having to listen to other senses to orient myself to what the chassis / tires are doing.
09-09-2009, 05:47 AM
#39
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[QUOTE=PoweredByCamry,Sep 8 2009, 10:12 PM]But I have driven cars with PS like an E30 BMW where just tooling down a straight road, the steering feels hopelessly light and sloppy.
09-09-2009, 06:24 AM
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I don't really understand what is so bad about the S2ks steering (stock 2001 AP1 here).
I have read about this being an issue before i bought mine. I was a little concerned about it, but it felt ok when i first testdrove the car, so i bought it anyway.
I have owned a miata before (1.8l NB) and also a 1990 Porsche 944 Turbo.
The 944 was the best i've ever experienced, and the Miata was great aswell.
Compared to the S2000, the 944 wins regarding steering feel. It has a system that will turn off steering assist/power steering gradually when you drive faster, and will turn it off completely when you are above 50mph. It felt great and the feedback from the front wheels was perfect.
In comparison to the miata, the S2000 is far better in my opinion. While both cars feel good when just driving through corners within their traction limits, the S2000 is way better when you start pushing the tail out. With the miata i never had a good feel for the front wheels when correcting a slide. You kind of had to "guess" what way they were pointing all the time. This has led to situations when the rear tires regained grip, while i thought the front wheels would be pointing forward again, while they were actually not. The result was snap oversteer to the other direction (which was ok on the track, but could lead to dangerous situations on the road if it would ever happen to you).
The S2000 may feel a bit numb when driving within its limits, but as soon as you get sideways, i've rarely experienced a car that gives such good feedback to the driver through the steering wheel.
I took the S to the track and did a lot of tail out action with it. Not once did i not know what my front wheels were doing. It is a joy to correct slides in this car, because it feels so damn good how the steering works. This is just my own perception and experience of course and could be very individual... but i guess what i'm really trying to say is... I don't see a problem at all with the steering feedback of the S2k, and i think Honda did a really awesome job with it!
I have read about this being an issue before i bought mine. I was a little concerned about it, but it felt ok when i first testdrove the car, so i bought it anyway.
I have owned a miata before (1.8l NB) and also a 1990 Porsche 944 Turbo.
The 944 was the best i've ever experienced, and the Miata was great aswell.
Compared to the S2000, the 944 wins regarding steering feel. It has a system that will turn off steering assist/power steering gradually when you drive faster, and will turn it off completely when you are above 50mph. It felt great and the feedback from the front wheels was perfect.
In comparison to the miata, the S2000 is far better in my opinion. While both cars feel good when just driving through corners within their traction limits, the S2000 is way better when you start pushing the tail out. With the miata i never had a good feel for the front wheels when correcting a slide. You kind of had to "guess" what way they were pointing all the time. This has led to situations when the rear tires regained grip, while i thought the front wheels would be pointing forward again, while they were actually not. The result was snap oversteer to the other direction (which was ok on the track, but could lead to dangerous situations on the road if it would ever happen to you).
The S2000 may feel a bit numb when driving within its limits, but as soon as you get sideways, i've rarely experienced a car that gives such good feedback to the driver through the steering wheel.
I took the S to the track and did a lot of tail out action with it. Not once did i not know what my front wheels were doing. It is a joy to correct slides in this car, because it feels so damn good how the steering works. This is just my own perception and experience of course and could be very individual... but i guess what i'm really trying to say is... I don't see a problem at all with the steering feedback of the S2k, and i think Honda did a really awesome job with it!