I'm thinking of buying a Mazdaspeed Miata or an 04 to 06 S2000 (this is not intended to be a comparison post). I've been driving a 96 Miata for the last 12 years. It has a good coilover suspension (not too stiff) and Falken Azenis tires. I can kick out the rear end and bring it back in at will with out any concern. Don't get me wrong, I have looped it a few times, mainly while autoxing. I know the S2000 is better in many ways but i've read about the "snap oversteer" tendencies and isolated steering feel, compared to a Miata, on this forum.

If I buy an S2000, what do I have to do to make it as tossable and predictable as a mildly modded Miata? Is it as simple as tire pressure and/or alignment, or will I need to go deeper than that? I think I read that the MY04 had a rear geometry change that corrected a toe-in problem. Any truth to that?

I know someone will be tempted to say that I should learn how to drive better, but if a given driver had equal experience in a Miata and S2000, i think most would say that the Miata is more tossable and predictable, and the S2000 is better in most other aspects.

Now if I could get an S2000 to look like a Miata... i'm kidding, i'm not going to go there.

 

 

 

Shoulda known this would happen. i said i was kidding

 

I have made a change from driving miatas to the S not too long ago...

Cant say I know too much about S, but it seems to be much different than my autox miatas.

stock for stock, i think the miata was much more "tossable", but the stock suspension never ceases to amaze me on the S. The chassis is waaay beefier, where as the miata was a wet sausage going over speedbumps sideways.

if you go into the racing section of the forum, there is a sticky about stock class autox for the S. A good allignment is a must, tire pressure, but there is also a good read about front sway bars.

 

Thx... good info. The same rules about sway bars apply to the Miata in auto-x to control oversteer. Of course, this isn't news to you.

I'm more concerned about mountain twisties which is usually a different driving dynamic than an auto-x course. Here, "snap oversteer" would not be fun.

Maybe the softer chassis in the Miata makes it more predictable at the limit. So what do s2k drivers do to tame the snap oversteer on agressive mountain roads?

 

The 00, and 01 AP1 have a rear bias spring rate. (~220 front and 290 rear) After that Honda went stiffer in front than rear. I don't know the rates for all years, but i think only the first 2 years were stiffer in the rear. going with a year that wasn't setup this aggressively will cut out some of the oversteer.

My 01 will easily come around on me, but it has been very controllable. I have a friend who has a miata, and I've tracked it. That car is no sweat when sideways, more so than the S2000, but the S2000 is faster around a corner.

 

My $0.02.

There is no such thing as "snap" oversteer in an S2000. I thought there was, but over the years of autocross and track I've realized that it's mainly a combination of a few things.

1. Aggressive rotational inputs.
2. Aggressive throttle inputs.
3. Inappropriate weight transfer.
4. Failing to account for road conditions / elevation changes.

That being said, there are a few car setup things that can make the car more predictable. Your application and preferences may vary, but:

1. Stiffer front swaybar.
2. Stiffer springs to resist weight transfer (especially front).

Additional things that are a personal preference, but will make the car less prone to "snapping around."

1. Retain a staggered tire setup.
2. Consider a clutch-type LSD.

One major thing to consider coming from a Miata is that it takes greater throttle control (remember, it's just my $0.02). You'll be switching to a car with more horsepower and torque. In situations where you could previously get away with "matting" the throttle... not going to be pretty in an S2000. I've had a few good drivers that have been used to driving low horsepower cars loop our S2000 (SC'd previously) when autocrossing because they weren't delicate and precise in their throttle inputs.

Kind of like someone who has been used to being all over the ABS in cars switching to a non-ABS car with aggressive brakes. It's a whole 'nother level of skill and feel.

So I wouldn't worry about "snap" oversteer. After getting track / autocross experience with the S2000, I haven't had it come out unexpectedly (it's come out plenty of times, just not unexpectedly ). Just start cautiously and do a few Test and Tunes with your local car club.

Good luck!

 

There *is* some funky oversteer behavior of the AP1 due to unnecessary and gimmicky rear geometry that causes the rears to toe in with bump (compression) and out with rebound (extension). This designed-in "bump steer" was a bad idea with the FC RX-7, the original NSX, and it was a bad idea for the AP1 S2000.

It goes like this: initial handling is on the oversteery side due to rear roll stiffness bias, but as the car rolls, the outside rear toes in, reducing oversteer.

Unfortunately this results in non-linear handling characteristics, which don't provide any real benefit *and* can easily cause the uninitiated to loop it.

Basically, if when you feel twitchiness at the rear during cornering, you LIFT off the gas (or worse, stab the brakes), the nose dives, rear end rises, and the outside rear toes relatively OUT. So not only have you unloaded the rears, giving more OVERsteer, the outside rear toe also changes giving still MORE additional oversteer.

It is drive-aroundable, but to be honest, my 240Z and old 240SX's had much more linear handling, generally more tossable.

 

^ This. Snap oversteer is a myth with the S2000. EDIT: Dammit Zdan. What CKit said, not you.

I do feel that the S2000 is more prone to throttle lift oversteer and I think it has to do with the high rpms and high compression motor...this motor puts on some serious engine braking when you release throttle from above 7,000 rpms! The car is almost perfectly 50:50 F/R balance and any good driver can learn to control it.

The Miata is more forgiving of driver errors.