The Intangibles
Guest
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Honda sends it's young engineers to racing programs not only to better their products, but to better
the minds of the engineers. No other arena teaches them to react so fast to the changing playing
field than racing.
It is significant to note that traditionally only engineers rise to the rank of president of Honda. Bean
Counters need not apply.
Regarding what Honda's racing experience means for us, the S2000 owner consider the following;
The whole philosophy of the automobile is a practical race car for the street. This is a traditional
sportscar in the purist sense of the word. Traditionally a SportsCar was a car you could drive to the
track on Sunday morning, compete in your class and drive home in the afternoon. The S2000 better
than almost any other car fits this mold.
Who else but Honda's racing engineers could pull off a 9000 RPM, 120 HP per Liter engine for a
street car and warranty it for up to 7 years?
Valve springs and bearing materials derived from their CART racing engines.
One piece Aluminium webbed, girdled main bearing housing.
Carbon/ceramic cylinder liners.
Forged, crankshaft, Rods and Pistons.
Hollow camshafts.
Chain/gear driven camshafts.
Yes my friends racing does improve the breed (the cars and the Men who design them).
the minds of the engineers. No other arena teaches them to react so fast to the changing playing
field than racing.
It is significant to note that traditionally only engineers rise to the rank of president of Honda. Bean
Counters need not apply.
Regarding what Honda's racing experience means for us, the S2000 owner consider the following;
The whole philosophy of the automobile is a practical race car for the street. This is a traditional
sportscar in the purist sense of the word. Traditionally a SportsCar was a car you could drive to the
track on Sunday morning, compete in your class and drive home in the afternoon. The S2000 better
than almost any other car fits this mold.
Who else but Honda's racing engineers could pull off a 9000 RPM, 120 HP per Liter engine for a
street car and warranty it for up to 7 years?
Valve springs and bearing materials derived from their CART racing engines.
One piece Aluminium webbed, girdled main bearing housing.
Carbon/ceramic cylinder liners.
Forged, crankshaft, Rods and Pistons.
Hollow camshafts.
Chain/gear driven camshafts.
Yes my friends racing does improve the breed (the cars and the Men who design them).
Administrator
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 20,274
Likes: 4
From: Toronto, Canada
Well now that the nastyness is over...
The S2000 is not hand built nor is it's engine. It is statistically and ecnomically impossible to hand build 15000 cars per year for $32K each. It is no more hand built than any other car of its type and price range. Sorry, that's how it is. The NSX is hand built and so is the 911 hence the $100K price tag.
Yes it's wonderful but not quite as special as you suggest. I would also contest the idea that it didn't make it's way through the corporate maze or that is it a skunk works project that slipped out the back door.
It was planned, projected, reviewed, debated and compromised on just like anything else, especially in a huge Japanesse company. I am thankful however that it escaped the axe unlike many wonderful, creative and ground breaking projects which aren't so lucky.
I give thanks to Honda for having the vision to let this one pass.
(And I still think this is OT
)
[This message has been edited by cthree (edited December 11, 2000).]
The S2000 is not hand built nor is it's engine. It is statistically and ecnomically impossible to hand build 15000 cars per year for $32K each. It is no more hand built than any other car of its type and price range. Sorry, that's how it is. The NSX is hand built and so is the 911 hence the $100K price tag.
Yes it's wonderful but not quite as special as you suggest. I would also contest the idea that it didn't make it's way through the corporate maze or that is it a skunk works project that slipped out the back door.
It was planned, projected, reviewed, debated and compromised on just like anything else, especially in a huge Japanesse company. I am thankful however that it escaped the axe unlike many wonderful, creative and ground breaking projects which aren't so lucky.
I give thanks to Honda for having the vision to let this one pass.
(And I still think this is OT
)[This message has been edited by cthree (edited December 11, 2000).]
Administrator
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 17,004
Likes: 7
From: Santa Cruz, CA, US
yup, I agree with c3 about the hand built.
It is built in a low production plant w/ more care than most mass produced cars, but not by hand.
The NSX's aren't built by hand are they? I know they are built in the same plant.
As for this being OT... I can't imagine how this topic could be any more ON topic.
The topic is the s2k is it not?
It is built in a low production plant w/ more care than most mass produced cars, but not by hand.
The NSX's aren't built by hand are they? I know they are built in the same plant.
As for this being OT... I can't imagine how this topic could be any more ON topic.
The topic is the s2k is it not?
Administrator
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 20,274
Likes: 4
From: Toronto, Canada
I still don't see where it says hand built. Not built by machine and built by hand are not the only options. The S2000 is built on an assembly line where one station does one job and another does another. The reason that it is not a fully automated process is that the setup costs are to high for low production units. It is cheaper to train a couple of thousand people to built it than to retool an entire factory.
Hand built means the car is built by a single team of technicians. That the car is on dollies not a conveyor belt. By your definition every car made before 1988 would be "hand built". If it's built by hand then you would have the signatures of the team that built it on there somewhere. The truth is that your S2000 passed through hundreds of hands on the way to being a car. Ferraris are built by hand, and thus hand built. I really don't see the similarity between how a Modena is born and how an S2000 is. Are they both hand built? If they are built differently then calling it hand built is misleading.
The benefit of automated factories is that as long as you have raw materials going in one end you have product coming out the other. They don't stop or go on strike they just produce and produce. Honda would have to build 10x the number of S2000's to start to justify such an expendature. The market for this model simply couldn't support an automated line like for the Civic.
As for the NSX, I don't know but I can't see an assembly line which only spits out an average of 3 per day. The S2000 line ejects on average 46 per day. This ofcourse assumes a 365 day production season which is not the case due to retool time for the next years models. A line which only makes a 1000 of something must either spend an enormous amount of time in the line or the line must sit idle most of the time. If the NSX and the S2000 are built the same way, what do the NSX guys do with the rest of their time?
I was told by the Acura dealer that NSX's are built to order. You place your order, it goes to the factory and your car is built. Three months later you get it. It's sent individually not as part of an allotment and arrives at the deal on it's own truck. I don't know if this is true I did get it from a dealer after all.
BTW folks, I think the following says it all:
[This message has been edited by cthree (edited December 11, 2000).]
Hand built means the car is built by a single team of technicians. That the car is on dollies not a conveyor belt. By your definition every car made before 1988 would be "hand built". If it's built by hand then you would have the signatures of the team that built it on there somewhere. The truth is that your S2000 passed through hundreds of hands on the way to being a car. Ferraris are built by hand, and thus hand built. I really don't see the similarity between how a Modena is born and how an S2000 is. Are they both hand built? If they are built differently then calling it hand built is misleading.
The benefit of automated factories is that as long as you have raw materials going in one end you have product coming out the other. They don't stop or go on strike they just produce and produce. Honda would have to build 10x the number of S2000's to start to justify such an expendature. The market for this model simply couldn't support an automated line like for the Civic.
As for the NSX, I don't know but I can't see an assembly line which only spits out an average of 3 per day. The S2000 line ejects on average 46 per day. This ofcourse assumes a 365 day production season which is not the case due to retool time for the next years models. A line which only makes a 1000 of something must either spend an enormous amount of time in the line or the line must sit idle most of the time. If the NSX and the S2000 are built the same way, what do the NSX guys do with the rest of their time?
I was told by the Acura dealer that NSX's are built to order. You place your order, it goes to the factory and your car is built. Three months later you get it. It's sent individually not as part of an allotment and arrives at the deal on it's own truck. I don't know if this is true I did get it from a dealer after all.
BTW folks, I think the following says it all:
I am a student of Honda. Don't give me your "opinions" please.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,116
Likes: 0
From: palo alto
you obviously haven't been to the ferrari factory......it's one of the most modern,automated facilities around.....if you really want a "hand built" car these days, the morgan is about it[i don't think mclarens or real shelby cobras count..those are "custom built" ]
btw...i'll be at the honda factory at the first of the year....i'll give you my observations on the s2k "assembly"
[This message has been edited by dbw (edited December 11, 2000).]
btw...i'll be at the honda factory at the first of the year....i'll give you my observations on the s2k "assembly"
[This message has been edited by dbw (edited December 11, 2000).]