Low revs-low power?
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 630
Likes: 0
Zsr31-
If you're even looking at a S4, then the S2000 is the wrong car for you. I can't even think of a single element that either share.
As for the combination of cars to have-
A big GT for fast tracks, and a little sports car for hilly roads and small tracks.
Or- a Nissan Skyline GT-R, and a Honda S2000. With both cars I've covered a broad spectrum that no other sports car can match. Need power? How does 550HP, 430ft/lbs torque at all four wheels sound? Need agility? 2800lb S2000 with 260HP and Mugen goodies is world class. Need pedigree? How about years of non stop winning in JTCC races by the GT-R that resulted in the new race class- the JGTCC, and what about Honda's and Mugen's F1 involvement and domination in the 80's?
What has Audi done lately? Prototype racing in LeMans and ALMS is great and all, but those cars rarely have technology that trickles down to road cars. Audi was a major reason why Group A was disbanded in the WRC, but they never attempted to run there again or homologate a WRC car. Heck, even Mitsubishi runs the Lancer as a Group N car in the WRC homologation! I don't know much about F1- but I know that Audi hasn't been there since I've been watching it!
Don't get me wrong- I like the Audi S4. I just wouldn't like to own one, that's all. But then again, all Audis do nothing for me...
If you're even looking at a S4, then the S2000 is the wrong car for you. I can't even think of a single element that either share.
As for the combination of cars to have-
A big GT for fast tracks, and a little sports car for hilly roads and small tracks.
Or- a Nissan Skyline GT-R, and a Honda S2000. With both cars I've covered a broad spectrum that no other sports car can match. Need power? How does 550HP, 430ft/lbs torque at all four wheels sound? Need agility? 2800lb S2000 with 260HP and Mugen goodies is world class. Need pedigree? How about years of non stop winning in JTCC races by the GT-R that resulted in the new race class- the JGTCC, and what about Honda's and Mugen's F1 involvement and domination in the 80's?
What has Audi done lately? Prototype racing in LeMans and ALMS is great and all, but those cars rarely have technology that trickles down to road cars. Audi was a major reason why Group A was disbanded in the WRC, but they never attempted to run there again or homologate a WRC car. Heck, even Mitsubishi runs the Lancer as a Group N car in the WRC homologation! I don't know much about F1- but I know that Audi hasn't been there since I've been watching it!
Don't get me wrong- I like the Audi S4. I just wouldn't like to own one, that's all. But then again, all Audis do nothing for me...
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Hmmmm lets look at what Audi has done pretty much everyting in road racing except CART and F1. Trans Am, IMSA, rally, World challenge, touring cars, palmer audi the list goes on and on. So lets not say they havent done anything ok.
the truth is.....Audi has probably one of the top engineering programs right now in the road racing world. After next year most people see them getting into F1. Most of all the technology that has gone into the chassis of their LMP program is being compied by F1 designers. Their LMP car is basiclly a f1 chassis fitted to LMP body work.
Apples to oranges I know.
But Audi has one of the richest racing histories in road racing!
[Edited by Zsr31 on 05-01-2001 at 04:09 AM]
the truth is.....Audi has probably one of the top engineering programs right now in the road racing world. After next year most people see them getting into F1. Most of all the technology that has gone into the chassis of their LMP program is being compied by F1 designers. Their LMP car is basiclly a f1 chassis fitted to LMP body work.
Apples to oranges I know.
But Audi has one of the richest racing histories in road racing!
[Edited by Zsr31 on 05-01-2001 at 04:09 AM]
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Zsr31
[B]
Look at what cars are doing in the American Lemans series....the new BWMs went to a 4 ltr V8 and it was not the HP they are going after. going to a V8 they had to run a bigger restrictor......they where going after the huge gain in torque. Corvettes in GTs/ GT 2 did this also when they went to a seven ltr..bigger restrictor but the gain in torque was huge. Look ar how dominent Audi is with there LMP cars......
[B]
Look at what cars are doing in the American Lemans series....the new BWMs went to a 4 ltr V8 and it was not the HP they are going after. going to a V8 they had to run a bigger restrictor......they where going after the huge gain in torque. Corvettes in GTs/ GT 2 did this also when they went to a seven ltr..bigger restrictor but the gain in torque was huge. Look ar how dominent Audi is with there LMP cars......
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 630
Likes: 0
Driveway-
Actually F1 almost universally uses V10s. Your logic is valid, however.
Zsr31-
So what does all that have to do with the S4? I don't think I recognise anything from their racing technology in that car. Yes, they use the S4 in World Challenge, but it's not exactly competitive in stock trim. Do your research. Besides, I didn't say they have done anything at all. I said they haven't done anything lately, and if you look into my post you'll see that I refer mostly to F1, and sedan racing. Palmer Audi? Isn't that a single make series?
F1 is the pinnacle of racing. If you aren't in it, you're not competitive.
The only experience with Audi that I have is the fact that my sister's '98 A4 was a complete lemon, and that she later heard that she wasn't the only one who had that problem. In fact, it was such a heap of junk she got a completely new car. That's from a woman who definitely does not abuse cars.
LeMans is a great race. So why don't they race the S4 there? Or are they afraid of the Oreca Vipers? It's easy to win LeMans if you're the only factory team left. For "one of the top engineering programs in the road racing world" that shouldn't be a stretch...
The fact is, the S4 and S2000 are completely different. If you can't live with the daily use compromises the S2000 has, you shouldn't even include it on your list.
Actually F1 almost universally uses V10s. Your logic is valid, however.
Zsr31-
So what does all that have to do with the S4? I don't think I recognise anything from their racing technology in that car. Yes, they use the S4 in World Challenge, but it's not exactly competitive in stock trim. Do your research. Besides, I didn't say they have done anything at all. I said they haven't done anything lately, and if you look into my post you'll see that I refer mostly to F1, and sedan racing. Palmer Audi? Isn't that a single make series?
F1 is the pinnacle of racing. If you aren't in it, you're not competitive.
The only experience with Audi that I have is the fact that my sister's '98 A4 was a complete lemon, and that she later heard that she wasn't the only one who had that problem. In fact, it was such a heap of junk she got a completely new car. That's from a woman who definitely does not abuse cars.
LeMans is a great race. So why don't they race the S4 there? Or are they afraid of the Oreca Vipers? It's easy to win LeMans if you're the only factory team left. For "one of the top engineering programs in the road racing world" that shouldn't be a stretch...
The fact is, the S4 and S2000 are completely different. If you can't live with the daily use compromises the S2000 has, you shouldn't even include it on your list.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 630
Likes: 0
Pleasanton 9k rpm-
If you're referring to me and who I think I am...
I think my position on this subject is pretty clear. I KNOW I have an S2000 and a Nissan Skyline GT-R. I also KNOW that I don't want any VW product- that's what I think of them, anecdotal evidence, experience, what I've seen.
As for calling me a troll- do a search on my posts. I was posting to Zsr31's comments, not yours, and those are my feelings about those two cars and the engineering they represent. The last time I looked Zsr31 was comparing those two cars. Being defensive? You may want to reread your own post there. I know I have nothing to be jealous about. S4... Hahaha! Bring it on! I can use the S2000 to thump it- I don't even need the big stick. I can't think of a real track that the S2000 can't beat on a street S4.
Yeah... I want an S4- like I want liver for dinner!
If you're referring to me and who I think I am...
I think my position on this subject is pretty clear. I KNOW I have an S2000 and a Nissan Skyline GT-R. I also KNOW that I don't want any VW product- that's what I think of them, anecdotal evidence, experience, what I've seen.
As for calling me a troll- do a search on my posts. I was posting to Zsr31's comments, not yours, and those are my feelings about those two cars and the engineering they represent. The last time I looked Zsr31 was comparing those two cars. Being defensive? You may want to reread your own post there. I know I have nothing to be jealous about. S4... Hahaha! Bring it on! I can use the S2000 to thump it- I don't even need the big stick. I can't think of a real track that the S2000 can't beat on a street S4.
Yeah... I want an S4- like I want liver for dinner!
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 612
Likes: 0
From: Stockholm
Originally posted by Pleasanton 9k rpm
....you will be badly embarrased.
....you will be badly embarrased.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 630
Likes: 0
Pleasanton 9k rpm-
*yawn*
VW owns Porsche? That's a new one...
I don't "hunt down S4s". That's like saying a Honda S2000 looks for races with a Yugo. Pointless. I like to drive at my own speed- I don't street race. Street racing is for knuckleheads and they aren't worth my time.
Considering the fact that many VWs and Audis share many components, including chassis, I don't understand your unwillingness to say that they are the same. Most of my VW/Audi owner friends think they are the same...
Next time I come out to LA I'll pick up a bone stock GT-R from my buddies at MotoRex and we can go to a track. Buttonwillow or Willow Springs will suffice, or if you are further up north I'm sure Mazda Raceway will be fun- I know some good groups that go to all three tracks regularly. Perhaps you'll get a better understanding why two doors are better than four, and why a well designed double wishbone suspension is better than the Macpherson strut links.
In any case, bring it on! Audi schmaudi... I haven't seen any S4s to be afraid of. There are DSMs that have more power than 320HP and 370ft/lbs torque that are more impressive.
*yawn*
VW owns Porsche? That's a new one...
I don't "hunt down S4s". That's like saying a Honda S2000 looks for races with a Yugo. Pointless. I like to drive at my own speed- I don't street race. Street racing is for knuckleheads and they aren't worth my time.
Considering the fact that many VWs and Audis share many components, including chassis, I don't understand your unwillingness to say that they are the same. Most of my VW/Audi owner friends think they are the same...
Next time I come out to LA I'll pick up a bone stock GT-R from my buddies at MotoRex and we can go to a track. Buttonwillow or Willow Springs will suffice, or if you are further up north I'm sure Mazda Raceway will be fun- I know some good groups that go to all three tracks regularly. Perhaps you'll get a better understanding why two doors are better than four, and why a well designed double wishbone suspension is better than the Macpherson strut links.
In any case, bring it on! Audi schmaudi... I haven't seen any S4s to be afraid of. There are DSMs that have more power than 320HP and 370ft/lbs torque that are more impressive.
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 630
Likes: 0
Pleasanton 9k rpm-
Do you actually read what you write?
I've said that I was biased against Audis because of a very, very bad experience to someone who is very close to me. I never said I wasn't biased. You, however seem to be very defensive about Audi. I would go as far as saying that you are the one with the inferiority complex.
Street racer, go back to hounding silly little poorly maintained Civics and Tercels. I offered to see you at a track where we could have some fun but you don't have any interest in that. I guess it would be too easy to show you my tailights- or are you afraid your skirt will blow up from my continuous overtaking?
Calling me names and using foul language isn't going to change my perception of you. Find a more inventive way to insult me!
[Edited by GTRPower on 05-01-2001 at 11:11 AM]
Do you actually read what you write?
I've said that I was biased against Audis because of a very, very bad experience to someone who is very close to me. I never said I wasn't biased. You, however seem to be very defensive about Audi. I would go as far as saying that you are the one with the inferiority complex.
Street racer, go back to hounding silly little poorly maintained Civics and Tercels. I offered to see you at a track where we could have some fun but you don't have any interest in that. I guess it would be too easy to show you my tailights- or are you afraid your skirt will blow up from my continuous overtaking?
Calling me names and using foul language isn't going to change my perception of you. Find a more inventive way to insult me!
[Edited by GTRPower on 05-01-2001 at 11:11 AM]
