drove my friends modded ms3 multiple times (full bolt ons, cobb ap)

not to rag on the ms3 because it is a fun car and the low end torque is awesome, however I wouldn't buy one for a couple of reasons;

A. pressured fuel injection, stock block is only good for stock turbo if you go anything over stock chances are it will blow up (at least on his 08), internals aren't built like the oem s2k engine is. If you look in the boost section a lot of people are taking the stock block to 400-500whp range safely. However on the plus side the ms3 tranny is said to be pretty bulletproof, along with nice oem brakes.

B. FWD, generally it isn't bad at all and can be lots of fun, but the fun stops when you reach the 300+ whp power, it's spin city in the dry... not even going to mention if it rains!
It's always more fun to oversteer then understeer and a lot of the times it's also safer to oversteer.

Now I got plenty of seat time in his 08 ms3 and let me tell you the car is fun and the interior isn't bad, but if I had to chose between the two i'd pick the s2k even though it may be slower in a straight line, nothing F/i won't fix.

As far as buying one, if you have the funds go for 06+ ap2, but remember that you can pick up an 04-05 ap2 for substantially cheaper and still have the 2.2 drivetrain with upgraded looks.

 

The AP1 and AP2 feel totally different (at least to me), the AP1 is much more raw and engaging.You need to drive both...there is no extra maintenance on AP1's unless you're referring to upgraded banjo bolts and retainers, they're all bulletproof if taken care of correctly and cared for. I just talked to a guy today that had to replace an AP2 F22C that he just bought at 65k miles because someone absolutely trashed it...3 cyls were scuffed and the valvetrain was wrecked due to it being run low on oil, probably at the track.

I also drive a FWD rocket (Accord V6 6MT). Faster than the S but it makes no difference...the S is all about intangibles as you found...if it was 70 and sunny every day of the year, I'd be in the S every day. Unfortunately it's not, so my S has been under a cover since October

 

Man, you guys are saying all the right things haha. The more I read forum posts on here, the more I realize I won't be making a wrong decision with the S. I will miss the speed however, as I've been a torque hound all my life. Maybe Evo as DD? haha.

Not exactly sure what you're trying to say. People do compare the MS3 and MS6 on a daily basis, except one has 4 doors and the other has 5. One is slightly more luxurious while the other is slightly more raw, awd vs fwd, etc... People compare all types of cars.

Maybe you took my "altar of VTEC" post a bit too personally. I can appreciate VTEC, just not to the point of it consuming every conversation I have about the car. Not saying every Honda owner I've met has been like this, but a large majority only go on about VTEC and nothing else. IMO, it's really not all that much to write home about, but maybe my opinion will change. Either way, apologies if I came off a bit rude.

Well, some of this is a little biased and misconstrued I must say.

A) Stock block =/= blow if you know what you're doing tuning wise. I know plenty of guys runnning BT+meth+goodies making close to 400. Not to mention Borg Warners EFR series turbos are getting tailored to the platform as we speak. If you don't know what EFR's are you should read up on them, amazing technology!

You are right that the internals are weak as hell, and the S can handle boost better. It all comes down to tuning though. If you go on MSF you'll see plenty of guys breaking 300 and keeping the traction down. 500 whp has been broken on the platform as well, and for realistic $$ amounts. With aftermarket pads, rotors, and proper fluid, the brakes aren't just nice; they are a level above the S2000. Just research this one. I'm sure with a big brake kit on the S it could very well be a different story though.

B) I completely agree with the FWD, rain, and boosted S2000 comments haha!

My only issue with 04-05 is I can't do the FlashPro mod where you get more mid range power. I won't be turboing the S2K for a long while if at all, so the mid range power sounds really good to me. But the 06+ cars like you mentioned, are way more expensive for some reason.

Hmm, your post and the guy who posted "AP1 is a track car for the street, AP2 is a street car for the track". You're the guys who make me want an AP1 haha. So you're saying as long as the paper work backs up claims of maintenance, a clean AP1 is just as reliable. That's definitely something to think about.

Can you explain why the AP1 feels so much more raw and engaging? Really curious...

 

There is just something to that go cart feel that is magic and after owning one for a while you kind of benchmark the "S" against other cars you test drive . For example I drove a G37 back to back with a MK5 GTI and the GTI had the magic of being fun to drive with practicality and the G felt quick but boring . Same thing with a V6 Genesis coupe vs a 92 NSX . The Genesis had a nice sounding V6 but damn the NSX blows the Hyundai away and its almost 20 years older!
The NSX and the newer 911's are the only cars I feel are better than the "S" in the fun to drive category.

 

Drive one!

I used to own an AP1 and then switched over to an AP2 last year. My big pet peeve is the drive by wire throttle system and losing 1k revs. Both are great cars, but you have to drive them both and decide for yourself!

If I could do it all over again, I think I might go with an AP1 once again. (This is just my opinion, though.)

 

Sounds like you need a flashpro

 

Glad to have another canadian s2k owner, we have too little up here. But i highly suggest you look into importing from states. I got mine last yr 06 with tax included and all around 21k(plus a small weekend trip). To get an equivalent with the same colour and condiiton will prob cost around 5k more. Don't get me wrong i would love to stimulate the canadian economy but this car is just way over priced in canada. recent listings i see are 05 for around 25k and some 06 at 23k not including tax and theres only a selection of 2-3. There is just not enough selections up here and for some reason they all seem to be black or grey (nothing wrong with those colours just lack of selection)

Anyways just saying regardless if you end up with AP1 or AP2 take a look into importing so u can save a few k for it to be used on mods or a nice set of winter tires with hard top to use for winter =)

 

I also came from an 08.5 MS3 that I bought new and drove for 3 years.

Without getting into the details about the obvious pros and cons, it just comes down to feel and compromise. The s2000 is a no compromise sports car and from the minute you sit in the car, its obvious. The car is very low to the ground and very small.

The steering inputs and responsiveness of the car make the initial thought, of "holy shit this car is a nor frills sports car" ring blatantly obvious. It just inspires confidence with its demeanor and "overall" feeling of being "tight". Never mind the shifter being hands down the best shifter I have ever driven. Rev-matching, heel toe, up-shifts are literally stupid easy its almost like driving a car in a video game where every shift is perfect.

The MS3 was a very fun car, and about as good as a $23K FWD hatchback can be. It is fast, handles good and can maintain surprising speeds through corners, especially high speeds. But it just lacks that "connected" and "tight" feeling that the s2000 has. It is boring in comparison, and that is taking nothing away from the Mazda.

Maybe its just me, but the older I get the less I care about having the fastest car on the block. Fast cars that lack a certain feel get boring rather quickly. True sports cars that are decently fast and have that certain feel to it do not get old nearly as quick.

It's a shame that I had to learn this lesson because I would have just hopped in an S2000 sooner. I thought I could make the MS3 and the WRX that I owned prior to the S2000 what I wanted, but in the end they are just not the same. Most cars are full of compromises and it shows to the people paying attention.


I will add that as long as the AP1 has a clean service history and wasn't abused I am confident you won't have any unexpected service issues. Check the banjo bolts and valves for cracked retainers.

 

I've been toying with this idea as well. Seen 06's for as low as ~15k, problem is even after reading the "s2000 buying guide" thread, I don't feel confident checking the car over myself. Always worried that I'll bring it back to Canada only to find out something was really wrong and that's why it was so cheap. Except, unlike buying in Canada I can't just say "give me my money back" lol.

How long did the whole importation process take you?


I agree with every single word you wrote haha. Especially the regret of not going to an S2000 directly. My speed is far more practical though, but who cares? lol

 

process was quick i sent down an inspector person to take pics of car and test drove it (not perfect but its a chance im willing to take) plus its a honda more likely someone steal it than break down lol i got mine through someone here on forums but even through a dealership its cheaper than canada.

basically e-mail border that you are importing far few days before. drove down with a buddy pay guy in full got title drove it up pay all my fees and come back here emissions/safety and good to go. biggest problem was luggage in the trunk LOL s2000 was not meant to be used for shopping trips lmao