I havent driven an ap2 so take what I say on this issue at face value. I own an 03 AP1 with 4.77 gears, full bolt ons and a 75 shot of nitrous for when my ego gets too big.

From what I understand though, the whole AP1 rawness is essentially just that. Its a little lighter, the suspension is a little stiffer, the powerband isnt as easy to use (have to rev the hell out of it) and it really has that "go-kart" feel. AP1 doesn't have VSA like the AP2s do, so theres nothing thats gonna save you if you overstep your limits.

Basically I feel like Honda made what they wanted to make with the AP1, and then made some changes they didnt originally want (bigger engine, more creature comforts like an outside temp gauge and a clock, better radio, more speakers) in the AP2 so they would sell more. Note that Europe and Japan AP2s still have the F20C engine, North America is the only place that got the 2.2 engine.

Would I buy an AP2 if I had to do it over again? I honestly dont know. I'd have to drive an AP2, but being used to the AP1, I think I'd really miss the 9k redline and some of the styling cues (I like the ap1 rear bumper better lol) The flashpro thing really upset me at first, but I just picked up an AEM EMS, so that will do everything and anything the flashpro can do, just at a steeper price.

 

the S is the most fun

good read from OP btw...

 

Forget the "paper work". For me a CarFax is irrelevent. My S had 3 previous owners with very little dealer maintenance but it's flawless because they were 3 good owners who took care of the car. Used oil analysis, compression test and thorough inspection are a must. Read the FAQ, there is a long check list.

The only issue with the AP1 is that the 2000-2001 are missing some very nice features, and if you buy a pre-2002.5 you should upgrade the oil banjo bolts if you're going to be on the track (see FAQ). All AP1's should get upgraded valve spring retainers if tracked regularly, otherwise they are fine. That's really about it. You'll find a lot of F20C's with scuffing in the rear cylinders, but this is very easy to detect (compression test and UOA will uncover this) and it is due to a lack of maintenance plain and simple. If you look around you'll see many AP1's at 100-200k miles with no issues. There was a thread about one with over 300k on it that was totaled awhile back.

You really just need to drive both. There are endless arguments on here, look through those threads. The AP1 has quicker steering, a more neutral (i.e. oversteer prone) suspension setup and the 9k RPM F20C is different in character and feel than the 8k RPM F22C. I find it more difficult (ENGAGING) to drive well. If it was my only car, I'd probably get an AP2. But since it's my ~100 days a year car, I had to have an AP1.

That said, if you're like me, you won't enjoy the car if it's your daily. I hate driving my S with the top up because I feel like I'm missing something and it takes away from the experience. That's why I'll be driving top down next week when I get the S out even though it'll be in the low 40's and sunny. Keep the MS3 or buy something else halfway decent for snowy days, cold days, rainy days and super hot days. On those days you'll be dying to get back into the S.

 

I plan on picking up a 3rd gen 4runner or Nissan Murano as a daily (4x4 capability vs. luxury and comfort - another hard decision lol). Thanks for the tip, will definitely do a UOA,comp test, and inspection. I suppose that covers the most important bases, AP1 seems like it'd be the choice for me since prices are ridiculously low for 2003's these days.

I'm an Albertan however, I roll windows/sunroof/top down when temperature is in the teens (F). The S will be my daily, but where I live now (Vancouver Island), I'll probably drive it 50 weeks out of the year. That was another reason why I didn't want to buy a car with too many km on it, since I'd be racking up a significant number annually.

 

Remember it's not the brakes that stop the car, its the tires. I'm running a spoon "bbk" with aftermarket pads and OEM rotors on star spec z1 tires, i can almost instantaneously lock-up whenever i want.
Another reason why you might think the S's brakes are inferior is because it is not assisted nearly as much as the MS3. So you actually have to press into the pedal.

The reason why an AP1 feels more raw and engaging:
1) quicker steering rack
2) different suspension setup (ap1 is edgier you'll feel it just by doing jerking the steering wheel left and right like slalom, the AP1 tends to change directions quicker
3) No electrical nannies EVER! (ap2 VSA can be turned off fully, not like some german bs)
4) peakier power band, makes you feel like you're driving an F1 car combined with that speedometer
5) Just feels like a lighter car !? don't know how to explain this, but the ap2 feels like its got more ground presence. Doesn't feel as light footed.

 

Thanks for that! Will definitely have to test drive more AP1's before making a decision. It's going to be between an '03 or '06 as it stands right now.

 

I daily drive a 2008.5 Mazda3 S, and the steering feel is BETTER than the S2000--this is likely because of Hydraulic steering in the Mazda vs electric in the S2K. Again, it's not anywhere near as toss-able or rigid, but I have better road inputs steering wise with the Hydraulic steering.

On this forum, there have in fact been threads titled "Steering response, or the lack thereof..."

I'm just saying calling the Mazda3 an 18 wheeler is a bit much...

But on any non boring drive, the S2K is awesome, the steering is indeed responsive. The lightness/rigidity/suspension make up for the steering fee1 in the S2K.

 

Hydraulic or otherwise, going from comparing the two experiences on a purely sensory level, I would have to disagree with you.

 

IMO these are the best two model years aside from the CR, so good choice.


Hydraulic or otherwise, going from comparing the two experiences on a purely sensory level, I would have to disagree with you.
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When discussing steering it is important to separate feel, feedback and response. IMO my Accord has better feedback, but the S blows away just about every car I've ever driven in feel and response. The S can be a little scary at the limit because you won't get sensory information from the steering wheel i.e. when the front tires are getting too loaded...but once you get used to driving via chassis feel it isn't an issue

 

I was gung-ho about the CR until I saw the styling cues. Realizing that all of modifications are performance related, it still looks like a 17 year old went nuts on ebay. The interior is definitely nicer though.

Test drove an AP1 today and considering I will have a daily driver, it seems 2003 AP1 is definitely the way to go for a track day/weekend car. Truly, nothing beats a 9K rpm; besides torque

I see what you are getting at now, tbh I can't really make a definite decision without driving the S at its limits. That's not happening any time soon lol.