I agree. There is no way that a high-torque FWD car is going to keep up with a properly driven S2000 in really tight mountain roads.

 

The times will be equal - as they are around the ring.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...eife_lap_times
8:39 Honda S2000
8:39 MazdaSpeed3

OP - I think comparing these two vehicles is interesting but you're talking about the best roadster ever made available state side to a compact turbo sedan hatch.

 

motor trend tested them at laguna seca as well and the MS3 was actually .10 seconds faster. but in my mind the S2000 still wins the fun factor contest.

 

I tend to take things on a vehicle by vehicle basis. The R35 GTR is a Nissan which is proven to "not be garbage". The theory works well with people too

I have nightmares of snap oversteer when I sleep, no joke lol. Taking a driver training course this weekend, I think education and practice more than anything else can prevent a catastrophe. Only issue is where do I practice? public streets are too dangerous and auto-x/hpde events are too few and far between.


Thanks for seeing my point. A lot of people on here see the S as the greatest driving machine on four wheels sub 30k(understandably, to a point). Fact is, both cars are equally as fast over a road course, but I bet the S is far more fun, far more challenging to drive at the limit, and far more rewarding in the long run.


Agreed on all points. I'm debating just keeping the MS3 as a daily instead of selling it, especially considering its much faster than stock at this point...decisions, decisions.

 

And this is where I think things get interesting. The SPEED3 is not a soleful car. I imagine it's fun to drive, like our Subi Legacy GT Limited. Boost will do that. But when you are shifting at 8 or 9K in an S, taking turns, with the top down it's a completely different experience.

What you're driving is the best open top sports car ever made. People in general fall in love with cars and make them seem better than they are. Lap times, 1/4mile and hp figures don't begin to describe the feeling of driving the S. I believe because these figures aren't as impressive this little car didn't sell as well as it could. That said what do track times mean? I'm no professional driver but I'm fairly certain this extra power 'other cars' have doesn't make them faster than a bad driver could drive them.

In your shoes I would sell the 3 and get a car pushing 40+ mpg. Keep the S for fun and laugh up all the suckers (like me) who have sedans and trucks getting <30mpg. High gas prices are here to stay.

 

I like to think my speed has soul. It makes me laugh out loud and grin ear to ear when pushing it, i love the exhaust note, i love the feedback from the wheel, love the torque past 3500, the transmission whine in gears 1-3, the sound of my flywheel spinning, the vibration in the pedals; the in car experience as a whole is pretty exciting, especially on track. My car has far more feedback than an OEM speed3 due to having a full set of racing mounts (the motor DOES NOT MOVE in the engine bay), front and rear sways, adjustable struts, metal cage short shifter,full tune, and a bunch of other performance mods.

Going from this to test driving OEM S2000's, it's more even of a playing field than one might think. Still, I get your point, and you are right for the most part. I think where the huge difference lies between the two cars (besides power delivery) is in the chassis. The S2000 is in a different league as far as that...

 

I think we're in agreement. Glad there is balance on this forum still

 

I have both and will have to disagree on 18 wheeler comment in regards to handling of MS3. MS3 steering feel is there and know exactly what the car is doing where the S2K is slightly vague actually. MS3 is torquey but S2K is also fast without the torquey feel. I only have Cobb SRI on the MS3 and it's already too powerful for FWD where it's balance of handling and power no longer there compared to stock. I already start to spin the tires during fast cornering then understeers even when delicate(i live near canyon twisties). I can only imagine when it's over 300 whp. With just Cobb SRI, it already dynoed at 250 whp, 285 wtq. MS3 powertrain is great stock, too much power and it ruins it's handling balance easily since FWD.

 

The MS3 is a car that is dying for supporting mods like front camber plates, sway bars, motor mounts, etc. Mine spins tires in third, fourth if wet, but if driven with concentration and proper setup you can avoid spinning and wheel hop all day long.

As much as I agree there is a limit to what a fwd platform can handle, I don't think its anywhere near 300hp. After having tracked mine and driven it 9/10's, it just takes different driving style. Just have to know your driving line, corner entry, braking, and exit strategies down to a tee.

The torque steer and under steer still exist in boat loads though haha. Steering feel was discussed in latter posts in this thread, I retracted my 18 wheeler statement

Hopefully I'll have an '03 S parked next to this guy soon:

 

It's funny you mention the shifter - my roommate and longtime friend has an MS3, 2009 (non smiley) in red like yours. The first time I let him drive my AP2, he was immediately taken by the shifter. Made his throws seem like miles, within a month he had purchased and aftermarket short shifter to install to try and rival the experience he'd had in my car.

And I love the sound and feel of VTEC, but agree that compared to his MS3, its turbo puts VTEC to shame. I mean... it's a turbo, that's kind of expected. But still, for an NA engine, VTEC is pretty cool and will grow on you quickly.

Hope you enjoy the car