You will recall the "mysterious self-unscrewing-spark-plug" event on our return trip from Laguna Seca. That was fixed under warranty, but it ultimately did not fix the "intermittent-dying-at-idle" problem. So I took the car into the dealer and we were finally able to replicate the problem. Takes place under rapid cooling (usually due to driving in the rain or going through a pressure car wash), the car will drop to idle and then just conk out. Once it has cooled off completely, it will idle just fine. But heat it up and douse it with water, it will conk again.

We initially thought it was water in the electrics, but a close inspection and repeated tests led the dealer and the Honda tech line to conclude that it was the valve which controls the VTEC, i.e. the valve which lets the oil into the VTEC system to shift the cams. Apparently this mechanism was dirty, but once taken apart, cleaned and reassembled, they could not longer force the idling problem to occur. Hurray!

Not quite. I went down to pick up the car and just before I got in to drive away, we noticed a distinct ticking sound from under the hood - some kind of valve sound.

So back into the shop it goes. Upon inspection, the #1 and #3 intake cab lobes were heavily scored, and there was significant wear on the associated rockers. Ultimately they replaced the entire intake valve train and VTEC mechanicals. Got the car back yesterday and so far it seems fine - no idle problem yet either. Fortunately, all this was covered under warranty.

The dealer said Honda tech line said that they had seen oil starvation at the top end of the engine when the car undergoes sustained high-G cornering, such as I was doing at Laguna Seca. Reportedly this problem can occur even with full oil. Since I always have the car's oil changed and a full inspection done before and after every driver's ed (including LS), and generally over-service the car to begin with, it would seem this is a design error. I have been to five driver's eds and I am generally not the fastest guy out there, to say the least, so other people must be sustaining higher G's than I do.

Has this oil starvation problem happened other people out there? Has it led to the idling problem I described? Is this engine reliable?

The car now has 33k miles, which means I have 3k miles left under warranty. I know Honda and/or the dealer will still cover costs after the warranty expires if a related problem comes up. But the whole sequence of events has left me spooked about the S2k's engine. I love the car, but perhaps its just too cutting edge mechanically, or build quality isn't good, or maybe I've got a lemon. I've had 4 Hondas before this and they were flawlessly reliable.

So do I keep the car or make the hard decision to change?

 

hard for me to believe that honda would not test this car on the circuit and realize that they have a problem before going into production.

 

I seem to recall someone (Jason?) at the LS meet saying to check oil before going out on the track because of this oil starvation problem. Has anyone else heard of it or experienced it?

 

It is my understanding that Spoon makes a special oil pan with a baffel for this problem.

 

pdippell,

If this were a design error, I think everybody who raced would have this problem. I suspect it's a consequence of the faulty VTEC valve or something else particular to your car. I'm sorry to hear you're having bad luck

 

Consider buying the extended warrenty, for peace of mind, if you want to keep the car. Do you use race tires at track events? If not, then other cars have experienced higher G forces without any ill effects.

 

happened to this guy i met a while ago in his Integra Type R...but you got off lucky, his spun a rod bearing!

 

Paul, sorry to hear you are having problems. Maybe I am being dense, but the whole story does not sound right so without a better explanation I would be hesitant to trust the dealer.

The VTEC valve has nothing to do with idle. Seems to me that is could be non-functional and the car would run just fine to 5500 rpm. And it cannot get dirt in it at all unless the entire lubrication system is contaminated somehow. This makes no sense.

The story about the valve noise and scoring does not ring true either. If there was some sort of oil starvation problem it seems to me you would have seen symptoms after the track event and on the way home. Interesting that the tech line supposedly has heard of this but the people on this board with lots of live reports from all around the world have not.

Why does an oiling problem show up after the dealership just jacked around with key oil routing system? One that logically has nothing to do with the reported problem?

My conclusions:
- you need a better explanation from the dealer.. not us!
- You may need another service department (LR has had it problems).
- If you keep the car you want to buy the extended warranty.

 

I do not see how a dirty valve would cause the engine to die at idle. Was the valve stuck allowing the VTEC to engage at idle? Did the dealer explain this to you in detail?

 

View the Spoon pan below:
http://www.modacar.com/honda/oil_pans_honda.htm