For my part I think that as typical bureaucrats the ICE laws are not properly written. No aftermarket ecu is acceptable. Just because there is no connection to Obd11 it is not legal. With Hondata, AEM, Haltech, etc. an engine can be tuned to meet all requirements and still be powerful above stock.Engine can be modified and still pass all settings. It is just typical over reaching government regulations and not real data that makes a vehicle legal or not. Ca is the worst.

 

I work from home.
I don't have a commute.
I do live in a city center.
I live in NC which has about 2600 miles of Greenway, around 700 just around Raleigh, over 80% is 10ft wide paved.
I build electric skateboards that go 40mph, and ebikes and ride them on the Greenway alot.





I do care, alot. But I hope you can understand that I maybe drive 20-30 miles a week at this point for pure enjoyment in the S. Where as I spend around 6 hours a week with my lawn mower running cutting twice.

As well, let's say I didn't put a test pipe on, I did mention I failed with a kpro because two systems aren't supported. So while the car had all readiness codes and passed according to the kpro, and my obdIi scanner, it didn't in my state because the previous years it had extra systems in the data(evap and secondary o2) that were no longer there. Even though they are all still on the car.

Hope you can understand I do care.. just I feel as though my impact is minor... I'd feel better stopping cutting my grass , but my neighbors might not like that

 

All electric cars have been shown to have a significant environmental impact when you consider the total package: manufacturing, electrical production (power has to come from someplace), and eventual recycling. Most electric cars are generally tied with dino autos up to the 120,000 mile point. If the batteries are changed at that point, the environmental cost exceeds that of dino vehicles. The market is somewhat distorted because of "carbon credits" being sold by electric vehicle manufactures to other "carbon" producers. That generates income to electric vehicles companies that are not directly tied to selling autos. It is, strictly speaking, an artificial construct. In effect, dino auto users are subsidizing the purchase of all electric vehicles especially considering government "rebates and credits" for folks purchasing expensive electric vehicles.

Current auto emission standards result in very clean, ultra low emission vehicles. One guy mowing with a Briggs and Stratton engine contributes more pollution than you might think. From the EPA website (condensed)

"Under current standards, in an hour a push mower will produce the same HC+NOx as a car driven 257 miles, and the same CO as one driven 401 miles. To put it another way, assuming a car averages 40 miles per hour, a push mower produces more HC+NOx than six cars and the same CO as 10."

One other big deal is how pollutants are measured between continents. In the USA and engine is measured after running one gallon of gas through it. Overseas it is by time. Result? Most European engines pollute about 30% more than USA qualified engines when you run a gallon of gas through it. However, because the work they do is greater (much better gas milage) they actually produce less pollution than a USA engine for the identical trip to Costco. That is why engines made in the USA for export, with better gas milage, can only be shipped and not used here. That is why when many Americans rent cars in Europe are shocked how much better the milage is than the USA cars. USA auto makers would love to sell cars getting 50 mpg but they way rules are structured here, it is challenging.

 

In my case no wasteful, potentially harmful lithium-ion remnants are associated with any of my skateboards. On the right hill I could definitely exceed 40 mph. Of course were that to happen I wouldn't likely still be around to participate on this thread, lol. I'm pulling your chain @Deckoz . I do get that you care, I figured that out earlier in this thread. I do understand that while you might support and take advantage of the changes to the law in your state, you could still produce a smaller carbon footprint than myself. I'm not arguing this point. The reality is that everyone of us could do better, but we could also all do worse. The only thing that I quickly grow tired of are scenarios that involves one side telling the other side to simply screw off. The only way this issue, or any others out there impacting large groups of people, is going to work or move forward is if all sides are willing to compromise to some degree.

That's already been happening on the emissions front, although clearly not as much as some of us might have thought (like I said earlier, I was really kind of shocked at just how much decrease in pollution has been realized since the COVID-19 pandemic). In my mind, you and I are good. We're simply having a conversation as far as I'm concerned. I'm not even trying to make you out to be a bad guy here, rather I was just sharing my feelings on the matter that weren't in alignment with your own. I see you more as an outlier in the big picture, but maybe I'm wrong about that. Regardless, as best I can tell we're on the same side of the coin as far as the big picture is concerned.

For what it's worth, I sold my vintage boards a couple of years ago (for a surprising amount of coin actually). While I still have the G&S board, I haven't ridden in probably 8 years or so. I've always liked skateboards much better than they've liked me. (I rode them on and off for years dating back to the 70's, but always sucked at it compared to most.)

 

15 of the world's largest ships (cargo container) emit more pollution then all the worlds cars combined. One Container Cargo ship equals 50 million cars. Don't even get me started on Cruise Ships:

https://www.thesun.ie/news/2336408/d...cars-combined/

If people really cared, they would demand change and move away from globalization and stop buying anything made in China. The double whammy of Chinese manufacturing pollution with the fact that most of all goods are containerized in some form on a ship, then that small little iPhone you purchased probably produced more emissions to get into your hands then Deckoz' 20 year old S2000.

Also things like leaf blowers and lawn mowers aren't regulated but insanely polluting, why aren't we regulating the millions of migrant landscaper leaf blowers and lawn mowers in California but make citizens pay through ever stringent auto emissions?

Lastly electric vehicles are a scam to the environment. The entire 'Carbon Credit' system is a money grabbing scheme the big banks invented (this is fact, google it) and then pushed globally, it generates billions of dollars in fees for them while not doing really anything to solve the problem. The credits are bought and sold on a market just like stocks, and they charge a fee and commission to do so. The whole concept is just absurd, it's like implementing a global murder or rape credit system, and then reduce it by 2% each year. Hey South Africa, you've exceeded your rape credits this year, but that's ok, you can buy Iceland's excess allotted ones. Also, Tesla only made a profit last quarter because of selling carbon credits. Not only that but the environmental impact of all the EV batteries that are being dumped all over the earth is insanely toxic. Like how 'energy efficient' light bulbs all have mercury in them, how in the world is this a better solution then the old filament ones...this is going to be catastrophic on our water supplies in the years to come.

I know a lot of people have their heart in the right place that they want to do 'something' for the cause. But sometimes that something has either no impact or is even worse then the cause.

 

I think motorcycles are more his style. Those are the cleanest vehicles on the planet. Oh wait.

 

Ah yes, somebody finally gets it. There are much bigger fish to fry, yet the focus continues to be on the minnow.

 

Okay @Thomas Guide & @ssbfgc, l'm game.

To start, how about the three of us try to establish some baselines regarding our individual impacts on the environment. How many cargo ships do you each own? If the answer is none, then that's nothing more than a distraction to the discussion at hand. (Nicely played though and very informative - seriously, kudos.)We can remove cargo ships from the list. The only thing that I'm aware of that we might all have in common here is the ownership of a S2000. But if you want to try and expand things to a larger level to include other things that we all have in common then I'm willing to play along (I have no idea how I'll fare).

How many vehicles with ICE's do you own? What are those vehicles? How many miles in total do you travel in those vehicles on an annual basis? How many S2000's do you own? Have they been modified in a way that impacts their emissions? How many miles do you travel in your S2000's on an annual basis? Do you own a gas lawn mower? If so, what is your lawn size and how often do you mow it? Do you own a smartphone? (I'll assume that it's made in China, but if not then please note it for bonus points.) How many smartphone's have you purchased in your lifetime? How many bicycles do you own? How far do you travel on an annual basis by bicycle?

That's probably a good start, but we can keep going if you want to. We can move on to purchasing of goods made in USA vs abroad or shopping locally vs national chains / big box stores and the like if you want. Surely there are countless others. I'm not opposed to playing along, let's just make sure that we're all playing the same game here.

 

@GuthNW

I'd like to share more info with you as I don't think you understand the impact of global trade and your part in it. 90% of all goods are transported by vessel and 70% by container. 53% of all goods in America came in by vessel. Many moons ago I was a logistics coordinator out of the Port of Long Beach for the now defunct Canada Maritime, I managed about 2500 containers on the West Coast, which is about a drop of water in the ocean of global trade. Most people don't realize how the goods they have at home actually get there. I also stay current on various global shipping metrics because I day trade on and off, so am in tune with this information, like the Baltic Dry Index, and traffic at the major US ports...traffic down means trade is down which means economy goes down.

https://www.bts.gov/archive/publicat...ortation/index

If you look around your house, practically nothing is made in America but in China, Korea, Thailand, Vietnam, Singapore etc. Everything is made overseas these days. Now think about in your life how much stuff you've bought that has come from Asia, how many containers worth of goods you've consumed, things like disposable items, deodorant, floss, garbage bags, clothes, electronics...all your S2000 parts come from Japan...a whole life times worth of stuff and it mostly comes to you from a ship, all in a container, and how many containers worth of stuff have you consumed? We all have. Think of all those Asian countries that have zero environmental controls, and why all your goods are so cheap because of it.

You also mentioned the pollution over China how it cleared up in those satellite images (I think you did), that wasn't from reduction in car use, that was because they shut down their manufacturing base in Wuhan, 300 million people not working and factories not doing anything is what caused that. All those coal plants they have over there so you can get your cheap iPhones and technological goods is such a huge massive problem. Our globalization and consumption of goods is what ties us all together. If you can somehow locally source a majority of your goods I would be the most impressed person on earth, because I have no idea where I could find a local or regional manufacturer of a tooth brush, boxer shorts, or condoms. Another reason why folks lament NAFTA and the massive loss of American manufacturing jobs, mass pollution on an epic scale that no one wants to face, instead we tax ourselves more and more over less and less things that have an impact.

I don't know what the answer is, I shoot my guns in the desert and use the all American lead based ones (**** that vegan lead free shit), I dispose of my oily rags in the trash, my light bulbs and batteries go in there too, I flush my condoms and expired medicines into the toilet...by today's optics I'm "like totally worse then Hitler", or something. So unless you are locally sourcing all your life's needs, we're splitting hairs over car emissions. I don't pretend to virtue signal and pat myself on the back for being a good boy, because I know we are all contributing to this mess but most don't want to admit their involvement or are either willfully or purposefully ignorant about it.

 

@Thomas Guide
You've provided some really interesting information (seriously, no games or B.S. on my part). If you don't read through my entire post I hope that you'll at least skip to the last paragraph*. You are presenting the big picture, those things that definitely impact us all. I'm coming at things from the opposite side of the spectrum, looking at the very things that I myself can impact with my own actions and decisions.

I've had a lot of mangers over time express the following to teams I've been a part of: Don't come to me your problems as it pertains to the work we're doing unless you also have a solution(s) for me to consider as well. It's a fair point that applies to life in general in my mind. For me, that makes it a lot easier to focus on those things I myself can impact. Be that what I drive and how much I drive on the one hand, or even what I buy and where I buy it from on the other hand. Right now I'm in my bedroom as I type this. If I take a glance around me for a quick visual inventory I see that all of my furniture was made in the USA and the wood was sourced in this country as well. I have a handful of guitars under the bed that were all made in the USA. The wood used those guitars was sourced locally and abroad. In my closet I have multiple shoes and jackets that were made in the USA and the raw materials were sourced here as well. These items stand out to me because I made a conscious decision to seek them out, could find them, and was willing to spend the kind of money needed to purchase them. If I wanted to expand further on this I actually could come up with a few other items that were similarly sourced and produced, but to your point they are far and few between. The macbook on which I type was made in China and the list of other items produced there and elsewhere abroad dwarves those items I've purchased that were produced and manufactured locally or in the States. In my case when I shop I support local businesses whenever it's an option, especially those that feature local goods and food and I'm willing to pay more for this. We also have restaurants that source their food locally, in our case there is even a large local fast food chain that can lay claim to sourcing something like 70% of their food from the local regions (within a few hundred mile radius of the city).

So while the information you shared definitely was not wasted on me, I wouldn't say that I'm completely unaware of the role that I play in the overall scheme of things and the degree to which the larger overall problem you've identified has infiltrated our daily existence. In my case, I've literally been willing to put my money where my mouth is. Yet even then I do realize just how many things in my life are produced in China and elsewhere, or are sourced elsewhere even if produced locally. I agree that the numbers are staggering and you'll get no argument from me on that. I do what I can and that does not come without some effort, persistence and money on my part. This to me represents one of the biggest challenges. A lot of people like to talk about bringing manufacturing jobs back to this country (I myself am one of them). But that doesn't come without a price. It's hard to argue that organic produce isn't better for you than the non-organic alternatives but most people aren't willing to spend the money for the organic produce. (I understand that a large number of people can't afford it, but those aren't the people buying S2000's so that doesn't even apply here.) Expand that example to include only locally sourced food and then onward to locally sourced and produced goods. These things can happen, but when the rubber hits the road most people aren't willing to put their money where their mouths are. (All of this leaves out the matter of quality, but that only serves to muddy the waters more.)

When I've talked to people about this in the past one of the things I can't help but point out is just how much crap the average person owns now compared to a century ago or even a half-century ago for that matter. If people want to see a return to American made goods or American made and sourced goods then they are going to need to make that commitment with their wallets and not just with their words. As an example, how many people would be willing to do with just one smaller TV (you can substitute any number of other goods sold in your local big box or warehouse business) in order to be able to purchase essentials that are made in the USA and not blow their budget out of the water. My honest guess would be depressing to think about.

When it came to Deckoz's initial post, my response was focused more on the small scale than the big picture. Perhaps you can see why I tried to stick to this after watching the way this thread played out. While I definitely do not expect to serve as the best example on this forum when it comes to such matters, I'm at least willing to provide answers to any of the questions I've asked of yourself and @ssbfgc as it applies to myself. Just as I'm willing to take an honest look at the big picture as you've presented it. By the way, the pollution maps that I was referring to were actually focused on the USA. The differences were dramatic enough to surprise me and there isn't much in life that manages to do so these days. One more thing as it relates both to ssbfgc's snide comment regarding motorcycles (not totally unfounded) and to your overall focus. Check out this article that is now almost a decade old. While many guys choose to remove the cats from their bikes, I've left mine intact. My motorcycle was produced only two years after publication of the article. Still the measurements for my bike aren't going to fare well compared to a modern car. But the article does at least goes on in an attempt to speak to other areas where motorcycles have less impact on the environment than cars by addressing exactly the sort of things that you've attempted to make others aware of.

*Note to Thomas Guide in particular. It's highly ironic that you would present the information that you did in your post. I've not gotten much use out of my S2000 (or my motorcycle for that matter) over the past couple of years due to health issues. Those issues now addressed and feeling better, this was to be the year that I would be able to enjoy the car more. But then my time behind the wheel was interrupted by the my personal choices (yet again) of how to deal the pandemic including the big picture impacts of the coronavirus as it related to my local area. So when it appeared that the number of new cases were finally tapering in the right direction and the load on local hospitals were back down to sane levels I was extremely ready to get out and go for a drive a couple of weeks ago. My wife and I enjoyed over 300 miles of social distancing that day. For a portion of that drive we headed up the Oregon coast along highway 101 and then decided to take a quick detour up into Washington, crossing the Columbia river on the Astoria-Megler bridge and then returning to Oregon on the same bridge. I mention this specifically because crossing the bridge that day provided the perfect perspective to take in the cargo ships that were all queued up waiting before they could head up the river to destinations beyond. Believe it or not, while taking in this sight, I actually thought about some of the very things you mentioned in your post. My wife and I talked about this and other things like just how much effort goes into getting those ships from the ocean to the river as each one requires that a bar pilot actually temporarily board the ship to make this passage. (I've also watched those same ships pass through the locks that are needed to get them further upriver and it's quite the site.) In addition we also talked about fish as I like to fly fish for steelhead — which also presents its own share of moral dilemmas. I can't say that I'm fond of the fact that the more I learn about these types of things, the more complicated the realities of life become for me, but so it goes.