s2kdriver80

I was just wondering what haggling methods you guys use to get the price (excluding dest. tax/title/license) down as low as possible. For example, I've been reading that some of you guys purchased your new S2K's for just a tad over dealer invoice - how do you pull this off or more to the point, what makes the dealer willing to sell at that price? I was under the impression that dealer invoice is the exact price that the dealer pays to Honda to purchase a car. So, if someone (end user, like us) buys an S2K for $29.5k, is it true that the dealer only makes less than $200 profit on that car? I'm beginning to think that dealer invoice is not the true price the dealer pays because they are willing (seemingly) to sell very close to it - what's in it for them? I was shopping around for prices at a couple of dealers and one quoted me 32k and the other 32.5k. As I tried to haggle down, I got the expected "how are we to run a business if we only make a few dollars profit from the dealer invoice - you have to be reasonable" What should be the response to that from a knowledgeable and adept consumer?

1. Are dealer invoice and msrp the same for every single dealer in the US (as listed on KBB - $29,325.47 and $32,600 respectively)? I'm asking because when I asked what their invoice was (at a dealer), they stated a figure that was slightly higher than the one listed on KBB - I'm not sure if they're pulling me leg here.

2. What general tactics (that work) do you guys employ to haggle (e.g. threatening to leave, telling them x dealer quoted me this much - what can you do, etc.)

I don't think I can really have a nice guy mentality (though I am naturally ) when I go in to negotiate for the sole reason that it would put me in a vulnerable position where they could prey on my complacencies and willingness to compromise. I should go in with a certain mindset and exude authoritative composure - any ideas are welcome.

TIA

Elizer

bring someone who owns the car and knows what they are talking about, let them do all the talking for you.
just look really impatient, keep your offer, they will probably frequently say "i have to check with my manager", they will go check many times. if not, ask them the numbers to otehr dealers and go check them out lol.

jtpassat

Start with a price in your head with what yo'ure willing to pay. Offer a price below that and see what happens. Always be willing to walk away and deal with more than one dealer.

Ganthet

Sometimes, you will get a dealer who will just not bargain. After 2 previous visits, I went in to Rick Case with enough cash in hand to purchase the car outright, printouts of the dealer invoice price and holdback pricing, as well as sales figures that showed the S2k has been dropping by double digits over the last 6 months (year to year sales). I had done all my research and knew he would try to act like the car was hard to get (even though he had 8 on the lot and a used one in the back), which is why I printed sales stats showing the demand for S2Ks have dropped greatly. On top of all this, I had a bottom line figure of $31,300 from a car broker. I told the dealer up front that if he couldnt do better, then let me know up front and not waste each other's time.

His best price was $33,500 which wasn't even close. After about 2 hours of listening to him brag about free car washes and roadside assistance, etc, I ended up leaving. He simply was not interested in selling me the car for less than his price (which was over MSRP). Of course, he still has 8 of them on the lot, so I guess he likes to hold on to his inventory.

I went to another dealer, Maroone Honda, who sold me the car for almost the same price that my car broker was willing to give me. I chose to pay a little bit more and buy from this dealer instead of waiting 2 weeks for the car broker.

Bottom line: sometimes you just can't get a dealer to bargain, no matter how well informed a buyer you are and no matter what tactics you use

GChambers

I have been in sales for 15 years. The best way for a customer to get the best deal from me is to get me to like them. The more I like my customer, the better deal they have the potential to get. Then, be very up front about the fact that you are going to shop around.

At that point the sales person should ask "Ok, what do I need to do to keep you from shopping around and buy this car right now?"

Tell him what you are willing to pay. He may play the "I gotta go talk to my manager" game. He may just tell you there is no way he can sell the car for that price, etc... But now he knows that if he does not get you that price you are going to leave. So, If he does not give you that price, you leave and he loses a sale. Go to the next dealer and do the same thing. Someone will give you your deal if you make them a reasonable offer.

pfb

First, don't ever try and negotiate with someone who does not have decision making authority. It is a waste of time.

This means only negotiating with the Fleet Manager, Sales Manager, General Manager, or sometimes the Internet Manager.

Tell them you are ready to buy, what you expect to pay, and if they will meet your price objective you will buy.

I usually do the above over the phone, once I know the dealership in question has the car I want in inventory. I offer to give a credit card deposit on the spot and pick up the car within 24 hours. I also specificy that any prices are *inclusive of all fees and other dealership charges*, with the exception of sales tax.

If you find the GM or other manager simply wont work with you directly, just get out the yellow pages and call the next dealership.

Doing it this way can almost make negotiating for a new car pleasant!

As for the true dealer cost of a car, there are a number of things that can affect their bottom line.

1. Invoice prices sometimes do not list freight costs, a legitimate charge on the MSRP sticker.

2. Dealerships get "holdbacks" of various percentages.

3. Dealers sometimes get hidden rebates and other incentives, known as "money in the trunk".

4. Dealerships sometimes get additional incentives based on volume.

Edmunds.com can help you find out which of these apply to whatever car you are interested in.

Ganthet

The best I was able to do that night was with an assistant sales manager. He lied to me twice. First he tried to tell me that the 8 cars on the lot had just come in and I flat out told him that only the white one was new because I had seen the others on my previous visits during the last two months. Then he switched tactics and tried to tell me the car is so hot that he can't keep them on the lot, which is when I presented my sales figures that showed a double digit decrease in S2k sales. At that point he didn't know what to say except "you are a very well informed buyer"

His worst lie was when he sent me to go look at the Spa Yellow that had just come off the truck. He came outside with a "sold" sticker and tried to make me believe that one of the other sales managers was going to purchase the car if I didn't take it that night . At that point I was highly insulted by his bullshit and told him he was wasting me time.

Interestingly enough, I saw the Spa Yellow a few days ago on the lot still (a week had gone by) as I drove up in my new S2k to purchase some touch-up paint I was really hoping I'd run into that jerk so I could show him the car I bought from his competitor.

Penforhire

I've found a very useful tactic is to bring a friend or mate who acts fairly hostile to any offers and gets you to walk off the lot when they figure you're just sweating in their office-box game. Harder for you to play hardball by yourself. Conversely, I've made my WORST deals going with a partner who really wanted the car, and the salesman could tell.

If you have a friend who's a professional Purchasing agent (Buyer), bring 'em. The ones are know are stone-cold during negotiations. I've never seen someone stare and not respond as long as these guys. Whoever talks first loses.

djohnston

First off, the invoice price almost never reflects the dealer cost, because dealerships make money in other, secretive ways, based on volume of sales, factory holdbacks, etc. So even if/when you're able to negotiate a price just above invoice, they're still making more money than you know. And for every educated car buyer who knows how to negotiate up from invoice, there are a dozen stoopid car buyers out there who don't bother to research invoice price and pay way too much. (This doesn't apply to the first year or so of S2000 production when none were selling below MSRP, but that's all changed now)

Another good tactic: Go car shopping at the end of the month. All dealers are constantly in competition with each other to sell the most vehicles in a given month, so month end will always find a dealer more willing to negotiate as a means of making his quota.

Decide how much above invoice you're willing to pay, and stick with that price. Make it clear you're going to visit every other Honda dealer in a 50 mile radius to find one willing to meet your price, that will make the dealer you're with at the moment realize you're serious and more willing to make the sale. And be prepared to walk out the door, that always works, unless they don't want to sell you a car.

pierceman

Just pay msrp and get on with your life, you will just give yourself a headache . But seriously, anywhere from 1000 to 1500 over Invoice is a good deal, no matter what ANYONE says on this site. If it fits your budget and you like the car just buy it and stop torturing yourself. And ALWAYS ask for the fleet Dept. The sales guys are there to make a living on commission, fleet is usually on salary.

Most people on this board are not DEALERs and only have opinions, I on the other hand AM A DEALER!

You guys make it too hard on yourselves! Have fun with it, it is a car, don't take it personal.
MAtt