[QUOTE=Emil St-Hilaire,Sep 27 2006, 08:07 AM] Honda,now produces a detuned F-20,and they call it F-22.!!!

 

Thinking that Honda came up with the notion of specific output (that's the proper enginering term) is a sure sign of inexperience. Usually comes from the same kind of wanna-be gearheads that think drifting was invented in Japan.

 

i think his point is that they brag about it...not that Honda invented it

 

yeah my car just spanked your rice burner

 

It is traditional for performance car manufacturers to "brag about" (or more accurately, advertise and make a big deal out of ...) their high specific output.

The last time I heard this claim it came from a guy that was just trying to put down Honda, and intent on showing his ignorance. That particular guy was obnoxious (and thankfully it wasn't here on S2kI), and when I saw the same statement (almost exactly the same statement) I couldn't help thinking ...

I'll be nice and not say what I really thought. It really wasn't very nice.

Honda advertises what they do well. Honda haters are ignorant sots who put down the things Honda does well without understanding them. I like almost everyone, but haters, and Honda haters in particular, get on my nerves once in a while. It's not what they hate or like, but their profound ignorance, combined with arrogance, that gets under my skin.

Here's a good article that explains why Honda "brags" about the spicific output of their engines. Note that this is an article that appeared in Automotive Industry News (an insider publication), not a Honda ad.

Here's another article from the same source, discussing specific output, and this one has absolutely nothing to do with Honda.

And here's a funny piece by a guy who likes smartasp ricers as much as I do.

Even GM touts their specific output.

So, when somebody accuses Honda of somehow coming up with the idea or being the only company to advertise the specific output of their engines, it tells me a little bit about how much they actually know about cars. If they're being a smarta$$ when they make their comments I'm really tempted to tell them exactly how ignorant they appear, but I try not to do so, becaue it's just not very nice. I make stupid mistakes too, and get my facts wrong just as often as anyone else.

I really didn't mean any harm, but equating specific output with Honda is just bizarre.

 

LOL. One of the articles I linked to above says almost the same thing.

For those who don't see any value in specific output, I suspect that you may be looking for the value in the wrong places. To an engineer, specific output is both useful and meaningful, but it doesn't have any direct bearing on performance. A 2l engine with a higher specific output will have more power than a 2l engine with lower specific output, but that's the same as saying that an engine with more power will have more power (it's just nonsense). Specific output tells us about stresses on the engine, provides information related to certain types of effeciency, and so on, and a higher specific output allows lighter engines to produce equal power, so it's also related to economy. However, all the relationships are indirect. Still, specific output is an important consideration if you're trying to select an engine for a particular application, or if you're designing engines.

In racing, where displacement is limited by class rules, high specific output is the only way to win.

 

In my opinion, you can only say the former. I love the look of the new 911.














The AP1 was and still is the world leader in HP/liter in NA form.

 

[QUOTE=gomarlins3,Sep 28 2006, 02:44 PM]In my opinion, you can only say the former.

 

I wasn't comparing it, I was just saying I like the new Porsche.

As for people comparing the S to other cars, we compare ALL types of cars against each other. That's just what we do. If we didn't do that, car magazines would be boring. I compare different mini vans agains one another, sports cars against one another, and even classic cars against each other.

Saying you prefer the AP1 to the AP2 means you have compared the two models to one another. That's just what we do.

 

Yup ... check out the Top Gear video with Z4, S2000, and Boxster

Jeremy had to unlatch the top by hand, while Hamster just sat there and pressed on the button ...