One of the areas Honda saved money was to make the suspension wishbones out of steel instead of aluminum ala the NSX. I would like to see an upgrade package to replace them with aluminum.

cdelena you are correct with wanting to save weight rather than increase HP. Weight is saved all the time whereas HP increases are only at certtain RPMs. So your HP to weight ratio is ALWAYS improved no mater what RPM you are at when you shave weight. Very few engine mods (except forced induction or increases in displacement) will uniformly increase the HP over the entire rev range.

Colin Chapman knew this very well and it is the cornerstone of the Lotus design philosophy.

 

cdelena and Colin Chapman are (were) right...
Reducing weight (especially unsprung weight) is often more effective than adding power.

Ran into a guy while running errands today. He was driving a "super 7", a lotus 7 clone. 1150 pounds! Now that is light!

Had a Vauxhall 2.0L 165 HP four... Now imagine the S2K motor in the Super 7. Probably lighter than the Vauxhall engine!

Of course it is ugly as sin, IMHO.

 

Beig,

I like your comment about the suspension weight. I've been looking into producing the wishbones you mention. However, I'm considering to use magnesium for production as its even lighter than aluminum.

If things go well, I will later assess demand and possibly produce the new lighter components.

Ben Schaffer
Bulletproof Automotive Inc.

 

I gotta think new and lighter suspnsion parts is gonna cost a fortune...No? I remember the story of the honda engineers when they developed the NSX. They brought all the super cars of the time and a Go Kart with 50hp. They asked which would be the quickest. nobody picked the Go Kart.....They were all wrong.

 

time for some humor...

leave your car parked in a bad neighborhood overnight... see how much weight savings you have when you come back.

ok, enough humor...

Truly there are a lot of places one can save weight, but it all depends on what one wants out of a car...

"we dont need no stinkin carpet"

 

Here is my list of weight reductions:

1. Spare and jack (you'll need to keep the tow hooks since you'll be flatbedding if you get a flat, replace with aluminium ones)
Keep the seats, they don't weigh that much maybe 10kg each tops.
2. Header and exhaust, go to ti
3. Roll hoops, replace with ti
4. Side windows and motors, remove
5. Top motors, remove
6. Plastic panels behind the seats
7. Brake rotors and calipers, replace with lighter materials
8. Wheels and tires (S02's weigh a bomb)
9. cruise control
10. A/C
11. Passenger airbag
12. drive shaft replace with CF
13. shocks and springs
14. suspension components, sway bars, strut bars, etc. replace with lighter materials (ti?)
15. beer belly, lose it, replace with health club membership
16. stereo and speakers, remove

I think you can do all of that and still have a pretty stock looking car. That would shave off 300-400 lbs or about 15% of total. Maybe much more. There are obviously more visible this you could do but these things will keep it from looking striped out. I doubt if much would even be noticable.

Luis mentioned power steering but it's already electic and probably not much savings.

I may do some of these things, except the windows perhaps since I'm autoXing in ASP class and could use the help. Bieg's comment about the advantages of weight I think are really true. The weight is gone at all RPMs.
I never use the top or cruise and could probably live without AC. The CF drive shaft would be a big reduction and the header and exhaust may be in the future somewhere. I like the flywheel/clutch idea too.

Assuming you could easily drop 400lbs, the power to weight ratio would go from 11.6 lbs/HP to 10 lbs/HP a 16% improvement across the board or the equivilent of 278HP peak. That 1HP for every 11 lbs of weight loss.

Come on NASDAQ!!

 

I was too optimistic. The seats weigh 12.5kgs each, and total savings on the seats are more likely to be around 16kgs. So there goes another 3HP.

On this subject, I was reading the review of the Opel/Vauxhall VS220 and made a couple of calculations: The VX220 is 385kgs lighter than the S2000. According to my calculations this is worth 77HP. The VX220 has a 145HP engine which corrected for weight differences would amount to 222HP not far from the claimed S2000 240HP.

Lo and behold their acceleration numbers are very very close, if not the same, eg 0-60mph: 5.7s for both the S2K and the VX220. So, QED.

There is a general rule for this HP gain versus weight loss: If you are looking for handling and quick acceleration, go for the weight loss. If you are looking for absolute speed, go for an increase in HP.
If you can afford it, go for both.

BTW, Spoon has a full replacement set of suspension arms. They flex less, don't know if there are any weight savings associated.
A full set goes for 1000USD. Anyone interested?

 

But on the other hand you can save 23kgs in headers and exhaust and not 10kgs as I said earlier, so we're back to 80kgs total savings, maybe a bit more if you take some of the suggestions c3 put forward (jack, tool box, etc).

In summary, the sensible thing to do if you want to reduce weight without gutting the car is:

Get rid of spare tyre and tools.
Get lightweight wheels.
Replace headers and exhaust.
Replace seats.

These are the big items. I suppose you could get rid of the A/C and save a bundle, but that is going a bit too far for most.

 

I think I may have spoken too fast... It's only the bushings! but here is a picture:




[This message has been edited by Luis (edited October 22, 2000).]

 

For $1000 I would be interested in new control arms that are lighter and stiffer. The stocks are cast iron and has got to weigh a tonne (for you metric types) or even a ton (for my american friends).

I would think you could cut the weight in half. So at roughly 10lbs savings each times two control arms (upper and lower) and four wheels that's a savings of 80lbs over stock or 7.2HP p/w gain. Now add in Mugen header (10HP peak gain) and exhaust (23kg/50lbs) you get another 14.5HP gain or 22HP gain total. K & N added 5 more for a total gain of 27HP over stock.

Here are some measurements I just took:

rear wheel with S02 --> 25lbs
S02 uninstalled --> 20lbs
spare --> 20lbs
tools (less tow hook) -> 7lbs

The Hoosier A3S03 slicks I ordered are more like 10lbs. Also notice that the stock rear wheel is only 5lbs according to this chart. I performed the measurements by standing on a bathroom scale so your milage will vary. Just removing the spare, tools and going to the Hoosiers is giving me a 67lbs weight reduction (6HP p/w).

**** these weights are bogus see down ****

[This message has been edited by cthree (edited October 22, 2000).]