S2000 Talk Discussions related to the S2000, its ownership and enthusiasm for it.

Post using small ball to block coolant to TB?

Thread Tools
 
Old Apr 7, 2006 | 11:24 AM
  #11  
oakfloor's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,282
Likes: 0
From: woodland
Default

Originally Posted by Wisconsin S2k,Apr 7 2006, 11:13 AM
no it won't.

so, please answer my questions. or did you not measure all of those things, and are basing this soley on your own subjections. i bet snake oil and the turbonator work really great for a lot of people too after they put them in their car.
so you did this to your car and got no results? or you have never tried it..and where is your lab test report? you say it cant work so it wont? all i know is that it helped my car in hot weather. so we will just agree to disagree on this. thanks for your advice.
Reply
Old Apr 7, 2006 | 11:46 AM
  #12  
Wildncrazy's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,771
Likes: 2
Default

Actually 2 of us did do all the measurements using 2 cars. One had the mod one didn't. We drove the exact same route and stopped repeatedly to take temps. IIRC we found about a 20 degree difference. It's been over 2 years ago so I don't remember the exact numbers.

It was noticeable on hot autocross days when our power/timing wasn't cut by the ecu quite as quickly as other cars and our power returned quicker.

None of us in Texas have had throttle icing in the winter so it is definitely a cheap recommended mod.
Reply
Old Apr 7, 2006 | 12:04 PM
  #13  
Wisconsin S2k's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 9,792
Likes: 5
From: Milwaukee Area
Default

Originally Posted by oakfloor,Apr 7 2006, 01:24 PM
so you did this to your car and got no results? or you have never tried it..and where is your lab test report? you say it cant work so it wont? all i know is that it helped my car in hot weather. so we will just agree to disagree on this. thanks for your advice.
but what do you mean it worked? how do you know that that single thing you did was the sole cause of the result? you dont!!!! why? because you didn't measure it scientifically. when you are trying to "test" the result of such a miniscule change as a "mod" like this, you must eliminate as many variables as humanly possible to have the least amount of contamination in the results.

you, didn't do that, so I think my point is more than clear.

unless of course you want to try and convince us you knore more about this subject than the most knowledgeable people on this forum. The bottom line is, the TB is simply too small of a surface to have much impact, if at all, on the air coming into the engine. it simply is a matter of basic physics and heat conduction.


I will provide you with a few excerpts from this already heavily discussed topic:

First, the bypass of coolant to the ITB. The coolant circuit in the throttle body is to speed up the idle stabilization after a cold start. The coolant that runs through the throttle body warms up the quickest because it is recirculated (sorta like the heat riser system on carbed engines or like "carb heat" on airplane engines). Blocking the TB may only fool the ECU into thinking that the engine hasn't warmed up yet and it will continue to keep the idle high and continue to run a richer mixture. Obviously a richer mixture can cause some horsepower loss and even wreak havoc with your idle. If you bypass the coolant flow, the sensor inside does not see the temp of the coolant, and will cause the engine to run richer longer, and your engine will take longer to warm up and stabilize your idle. This is even more so when the weather is colder.

Also, this is like trying to use a spray bottle full of your own pee to put out a forest fire. The greatest amount of heating and heat transfer occurs in the intake manifold. This is where your intake charge heats up the most. The main reason being the heat via conduction from the head. The little piss stream that flows through the cooling jacket of the ITB has nowhere near the surface area or cooling capacity to even be effective in cooling down the intake charge. In other words, you can block it all you want, it's not going to do jack. It can, however, screw with your idle and your air/fuel mixture. Think about this from a thermal standpoint. Look at a front mount intercooler for a turbo, and all of the surface area it has with all the tiny foils, etc. That is the kind of surface area you need to cool the intake charge. Again, the ITB simply won't cut it.

The entire purpose of the ITB coolant jacket is to help in colder temperature, is to warm up the ITB just enough to it can get a stable idle after a cold start. After the engine is up to temp, it has no effect on the intake charge temp no matter what you do or don't run through it.
Originally Posted by SlowS2k, our resident ASE master S2k mechanic
Not to mention that stopping the flow of coolant will have little to no effect on air intake temperatures.
[QUOTE]
There is not enough thermal transfer going on to support the kind of gains he is claiming from this mod. Using the LS1 as an example let's do an experiement. Do you realize how much temperature would have to change to gain 5.6whp? If you calculate the volumetric efficiency of an engine, using mass air flow readings, you can convert mass air flow to volume flow if you know the temperature of the air. Use this equation here:

Where:

t1 = Temperature of air for a known density (32
Reply
Old Apr 7, 2006 | 12:04 PM
  #14  
Wisconsin S2k's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 9,792
Likes: 5
From: Milwaukee Area
Default

[QUOTE=Wildncrazy,Apr 7 2006, 01:46 PM] Actually 2 of us did do all the measurements using 2 cars. One had the mod one didn't. We drove the exact same route and stopped repeatedly to take temps.
Reply
Old Apr 7, 2006 | 12:46 PM
  #15  
thetz99's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,536
Likes: 2
From: Davis, CA
Default

Just my .02 observation...

1. Coolant is pumped into the TB to warm it up in cold weather to provide a stable throttle. This is pretty much the argument of what it is there to do.

By providing this heating to the TB, there is a NOTICIBLE HEATING affect to the airflow into the intake manifold when it is cold which provides stable idle which the sensors and everything down the line adjust to.



You can't turn around and then say by blocking this HEATING affect in normal stop and go traffic, there is NO affect. Either there is HEATING and airflow warming which by the stated design DOES happen AND by removing the HEATING the opposite affect would be TRUE as well...which is NO HEATING.
Reply
Old Apr 7, 2006 | 02:14 PM
  #16  
Wisconsin S2k's Avatar
Registered User
 
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 9,792
Likes: 5
From: Milwaukee Area
Default

[QUOTE=thetz99,Apr 7 2006, 02:46 PM] Just my .02 observation...

1.
Reply
Old Apr 7, 2006 | 04:39 PM
  #17  
McQueen's Avatar
Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Default

Well, whether it works or not I just love that cat.

On the same subject, what does the Hondata gasket do that blocking this tube does not. I haven't done the reading in detail to know the difference. I thought the gasket covered up the same pathway that led coolant to the TB. SG
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
rehile
Gateway S2000 Owners
123
Dec 8, 2014 01:16 PM
honda85
S2000 Naturally Aspirated Forum
10
Jun 22, 2014 02:18 PM
TProuty
New England S2000 Owners
15
May 22, 2009 03:56 AM
ambiguous
S2000 Forced Induction
2
Apr 17, 2008 12:12 PM




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:32 PM.