Push me over the edge!
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Ok, so wow, yeah, you are obsessed. That much is clear.
I think you will find the S driving experience to be very satisfying. It will check all your boxes. There are no reliability worries, if you pay attention to a few details, which you'll learn about if you hang around here. If you do this, since it would be a dd, I would advise to go with the newest S you can afford, even if the miles are higher.
But the question is still, should you do this? If the car you had now wasn't already a true drivers car, this would be an easy choice. So what would you gain, what would you lose?
You would lose a family, and gain a family. You would lose newness and familiarity, and gain performance, and a bit more raw drivers car essence.
Some of that sounds nice, but I wouldn't think that alone would be a compelling enough argument to switch.
The one thing that imo makes or breaks this deal, is the roof. If you would love a convertible, if your wife would enjoy fun rides topless on a warm summer night, or on a weekend going topless as you run your errands. If it would make a difference in your day doing a 2 mile commute with the top down (which is not at all an inconvenience, since top goes down in 6 seconds, its no big deal to put it back up 2 miles later when you park at the office).
If a convertible is not your thing, I would say stay where you are. There are certainly some nice pros that you would enjoy if you switched, but your current car is a solid choice for your needs. But just know, if you haven't owned a convertible before, it may be worth it just to check that off your car bucket list, owned a convertible sports car. It may turn out you unexpectedly discover you love driving topless. That is what happened to me...
Sent from my SM-G920P using IB AutoGroup
I think you will find the S driving experience to be very satisfying. It will check all your boxes. There are no reliability worries, if you pay attention to a few details, which you'll learn about if you hang around here. If you do this, since it would be a dd, I would advise to go with the newest S you can afford, even if the miles are higher.
But the question is still, should you do this? If the car you had now wasn't already a true drivers car, this would be an easy choice. So what would you gain, what would you lose?
You would lose a family, and gain a family. You would lose newness and familiarity, and gain performance, and a bit more raw drivers car essence.
Some of that sounds nice, but I wouldn't think that alone would be a compelling enough argument to switch.
The one thing that imo makes or breaks this deal, is the roof. If you would love a convertible, if your wife would enjoy fun rides topless on a warm summer night, or on a weekend going topless as you run your errands. If it would make a difference in your day doing a 2 mile commute with the top down (which is not at all an inconvenience, since top goes down in 6 seconds, its no big deal to put it back up 2 miles later when you park at the office).
If a convertible is not your thing, I would say stay where you are. There are certainly some nice pros that you would enjoy if you switched, but your current car is a solid choice for your needs. But just know, if you haven't owned a convertible before, it may be worth it just to check that off your car bucket list, owned a convertible sports car. It may turn out you unexpectedly discover you love driving topless. That is what happened to me...
Sent from my SM-G920P using IB AutoGroup
haha yes, I am obsessed. You know, I never really put much thought into the convertible aspect.I dont like that you would lose rigidity in the chassis but I do love the idea of top down. yes, perhaps this is something I could really grow to want. this ---> "and gain performance, and a bit more raw drivers car essence." I love
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
I always say get the newest,lowest mileage car in your price range.
Are you crazy to sell a newer car for a 10 year old car? I'd say yes.
If you wanted to add a S2000 to your garage I'd say go for it. But I don't know about selling a great car for an older greater car.
My 2 Cents.
Are you crazy to sell a newer car for a 10 year old car? I'd say yes.
If you wanted to add a S2000 to your garage I'd say go for it. But I don't know about selling a great car for an older greater car.
My 2 Cents.
no room in my driveway or budget to support payments on two cars. One thing is for certain, I can live with a 2 seater roadster as my DD> no kids,.. not ever. Winters will suck but thats what everyone said about the 86
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
The s2k is better then the FRS in every way, engine power, character and longevity, transmission, chassis, convertible etc. Everything you like about the FRS is magnified in the s2k, and the aftermarket support for further performance improvements is second to none. The s2k will keep you engaged for many years. Ive had mine for 12 and don't ever plan on selling it. They don't make cars like this anymore and never will with all the current car trends. The s2k is truly the last modern era of "analog" sports cars with the strong emphasis on 00-05 years fitting that description. 06+ DBW started getting watered down, but still retain the spirit of the original, and some added refinements were made which some people find a positive, but that's where you have to research and find out what your looking for. From the sounds of it, the Pre 06 DBW model is what would offer you the most of what your looking for, and the 00-03 ap1 being the most raw.
To note about the "numb" steering feel, which is electronic, its not something I ever felt stood out as a big weak point on this car personally. I will say that adding a wider footprint up front ie 245 or 255 tire significantly improves the road feel ability and grip feedback along with the right caster/camber alignment. I have no issues feeling my grip levels/feedback and turn in on this car with a 255 and the ap1/CR steering rack with the addition of the slightly smaller 330mm aftermarket steering wheel, which just further enhances the incredible turn in this car has. With the factory 205 or 215(depending on era) there is less contact with the road, so road feedback isn't as easy to perceive, plus the resistance/feedback with that narrow of a tire is limited no matter what, so feeling grip and slip feedback can be more vague and can also vary depending on tire brand/construction. Always stick to Extreme summers on this car as a general baseline to maintain the handling integrity of this car, as its very sensitive to a proper/firm sidewall construction. There are a few Max summers which will offer good sidewall construction for precise/solid handling such as the factory Bridgstones, but these days you get more tire/grip for less money in an extreme summer. If your going to drive this car year around, invest in another set of rims with all season tires. Don't bother buying this car if your going to run all seasons year around on it, it will be a wasted effort owning this car. Again, its extremely sensitive to tire choice. More then any other car ive owned or driven.
To note about the "numb" steering feel, which is electronic, its not something I ever felt stood out as a big weak point on this car personally. I will say that adding a wider footprint up front ie 245 or 255 tire significantly improves the road feel ability and grip feedback along with the right caster/camber alignment. I have no issues feeling my grip levels/feedback and turn in on this car with a 255 and the ap1/CR steering rack with the addition of the slightly smaller 330mm aftermarket steering wheel, which just further enhances the incredible turn in this car has. With the factory 205 or 215(depending on era) there is less contact with the road, so road feedback isn't as easy to perceive, plus the resistance/feedback with that narrow of a tire is limited no matter what, so feeling grip and slip feedback can be more vague and can also vary depending on tire brand/construction. Always stick to Extreme summers on this car as a general baseline to maintain the handling integrity of this car, as its very sensitive to a proper/firm sidewall construction. There are a few Max summers which will offer good sidewall construction for precise/solid handling such as the factory Bridgstones, but these days you get more tire/grip for less money in an extreme summer. If your going to drive this car year around, invest in another set of rims with all season tires. Don't bother buying this car if your going to run all seasons year around on it, it will be a wasted effort owning this car. Again, its extremely sensitive to tire choice. More then any other car ive owned or driven.
yes... this.. "the 00-03 ap1 being the most raw." this is what I want! that higher redline is more appealing to me. the stiffer suspension and rugged ride is what I want. I dont care if the passenger in the car has to vomit from my driving. I want to feel the car.
I have gone back and forth over the ap1 vs the ap2. I am leaning towards the ap2 for 2 main reasons 1.) reliability -> new years equal newer parts and usually fewer miles 2.) New years = more updates and fixes to older problems.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
The s2k is better then the FRS in every way, engine power, character and longevity, transmission, chassis, convertible etc. Everything you like about the FRS is magnified in the s2k, and the aftermarket support for further performance improvements is second to none. The s2k will keep you engaged for many years. Ive had mine for 12 and don't ever plan on selling it. They don't make cars like this anymore and never will with all the current car trends. The s2k is truly the last modern era of "analog" sports cars with the strong emphasis on 00-05 years fitting that description. 06+ DBW started getting watered down, but still retain the spirit of the original, and some added refinements were made which some people find a positive, but that's where you have to research and find out what your looking for. From the sounds of it, the Pre 06 DBW model is what would offer you the most of what your looking for, and the 00-03 ap1 being the most raw.
To note about the "numb" steering feel, which is electronic, its not something I ever felt stood out as a big weak point on this car personally. I will say that adding a wider footprint up front ie 245 or 255 tire significantly improves the road feel ability and grip feedback along with the right caster/camber alignment. I have no issues feeling my grip levels/feedback and turn in on this car with a 255 and the ap1/CR steering rack with the addition of the slightly smaller 330mm aftermarket steering wheel, which just further enhances the incredible turn in this car has. With the factory 205 or 215(depending on era) there is less contact with the road, so road feedback isn't as easy to perceive, plus the resistance/feedback with that narrow of a tire is limited no matter what, so feeling grip and slip feedback can be more vague and can also vary depending on tire brand/construction. Always stick to Extreme summers on this car as a general baseline to maintain the handling integrity of this car, as its very sensitive to a proper/firm sidewall construction. There are a few Max summers which will offer good sidewall construction for precise/solid handling such as the factory Bridgstones, but these days you get more tire/grip for less money in an extreme summer. If your going to drive this car year around, invest in another set of rims with all season tires. Don't bother buying this car if your going to run all seasons year around on it, it will be a wasted effort owning this car. Again, its extremely sensitive to tire choice. More then any other car ive owned or driven.
To note about the "numb" steering feel, which is electronic, its not something I ever felt stood out as a big weak point on this car personally. I will say that adding a wider footprint up front ie 245 or 255 tire significantly improves the road feel ability and grip feedback along with the right caster/camber alignment. I have no issues feeling my grip levels/feedback and turn in on this car with a 255 and the ap1/CR steering rack with the addition of the slightly smaller 330mm aftermarket steering wheel, which just further enhances the incredible turn in this car has. With the factory 205 or 215(depending on era) there is less contact with the road, so road feedback isn't as easy to perceive, plus the resistance/feedback with that narrow of a tire is limited no matter what, so feeling grip and slip feedback can be more vague and can also vary depending on tire brand/construction. Always stick to Extreme summers on this car as a general baseline to maintain the handling integrity of this car, as its very sensitive to a proper/firm sidewall construction. There are a few Max summers which will offer good sidewall construction for precise/solid handling such as the factory Bridgstones, but these days you get more tire/grip for less money in an extreme summer. If your going to drive this car year around, invest in another set of rims with all season tires. Don't bother buying this car if your going to run all seasons year around on it, it will be a wasted effort owning this car. Again, its extremely sensitive to tire choice. More then any other car ive owned or driven.
Performance tires made a world of a difference on my FRS as well. driver feedback has been greatly enhanced. I will be sure to do this and get a pair of dedicated snows for the winter on different rims thank you.
Site Moderator
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 50,928
Likes: 3,413
From: Michigan
Originally Posted by peiserg' timestamp='1471367075' post='24040677
The car is not fast. You'll need better than stock suspension for what you'll like. The good news is that its a very fun car. Suspension can be had used for easily under a grand unless you want serious track suspension. You'll never be fast without FI in this car, just fyi. But its still super fun
Zero to 60 mph: 5.4 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 15.0 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 6.9 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 14.1 sec @97mph
Top speed (drag limited): 149 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 166 f
GT86
Zero to 60 mph: 7.1 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 17.6 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 7.7 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 12.0 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 9.5 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 15.4 sec @ 93 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 177 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.86 g
I have also read from many peoples that the s2k is "not fast" , I guess speed is all relative to what you consider fast. I would never make the change to the s2k if it were not faster. I found these stats above. I can live with those stats if they are true. Although, you do lose power the more aged your car becomes.
thanks for your input
Look at the rolling start #'s for both cars, that's the real world difference, 0.8 seconds.
As far as your situation, go drive an S2000, and if you like it enough, go buy the newest and lowest mileage AP2 06+ you can find. Get some coilovers and get the Hondata so you can do an ecu flash and get some more power out of it, usable power.
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,531
Likes: 15
From: SF Bay Area
To add to my opinion : this car is better than the sum of it's parts or how it stacks up on paper. Its a different car than the one you compare it to, more sophisticated and better engineered even though it's older. It's also unique, in that it's sought after even after production has stopped. It's a real legend that happens to be from an era when Honda had more mojo built into their cars.
0-60 times , quarter mile, etc...irrelevant, it's the experience of driving and owning the car, period. Again it's an acquired taste, not for everyone, not perfect, just perfect for me as an owner. I have never had a car voluntarily for this amount of time, since 10/03, it's a 04 ap2, I being the original owner, fix and maintain 95% of the car myself, all the maintenance in my garage. I have a 2016 m3 to drive, which is beyond awesome... and some days the Honda beckons me big time. Is it better than an M3, no way, but it beckons and I enjoy it ...cause in the end there are two things....I am happy with my purchase and I enjoy the experience of ownership.
so ask yourself this, life being very short and health being very fragile...if you don't buy it will you regret it...and if you can... do it now... then just do it cause someday you won't be able to!!!!
0-60 times , quarter mile, etc...irrelevant, it's the experience of driving and owning the car, period. Again it's an acquired taste, not for everyone, not perfect, just perfect for me as an owner. I have never had a car voluntarily for this amount of time, since 10/03, it's a 04 ap2, I being the original owner, fix and maintain 95% of the car myself, all the maintenance in my garage. I have a 2016 m3 to drive, which is beyond awesome... and some days the Honda beckons me big time. Is it better than an M3, no way, but it beckons and I enjoy it ...cause in the end there are two things....I am happy with my purchase and I enjoy the experience of ownership.
so ask yourself this, life being very short and health being very fragile...if you don't buy it will you regret it...and if you can... do it now... then just do it cause someday you won't be able to!!!!
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,751
Likes: 1,856
Originally Posted by sam_spider
On paper, yes the S is quicker, the difference (to me) is that you have to work hard to get those numbers, in real world driving the S is not a fast car. Unless you launch it from a dig, it is not fast, nor is it going to give you a sub 6 second 0-60.
Look at the rolling start #'s for both cars, that's the real world difference, 0.8 seconds.
Sent from my SM-G920P using IB AutoGroup
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
To add to my opinion : this car is better than the sum of it's parts or how it stacks up on paper. Its a different car than the one you compare it to, more sophisticated and better engineered even though it's older. It's also unique, in that it's sought after even after production has stopped. It's a real legend that happens to be from an era when Honda had more mojo built into their cars.
0-60 times , quarter mile, etc...irrelevant, it's the experience of driving and owning the car, period. Again it's an acquired taste, not for everyone, not perfect, just perfect for me as an owner. I have never had a car voluntarily for this amount of time, since 10/03, it's a 04 ap2, I being the original owner, fix and maintain 95% of the car myself, all the maintenance in my garage. I have a 2016 m3 to drive, which is beyond awesome... and some days the Honda beckons me big time. Is it better than an M3, no way, but it beckons and I enjoy it ...cause in the end there are two things....I am happy with my purchase and I enjoy the experience of ownership.
so ask yourself this, life being very short and health being very fragile...if you don't buy it will you regret it...and if you can... do it now... then just do it cause someday you won't be able to!!!!
0-60 times , quarter mile, etc...irrelevant, it's the experience of driving and owning the car, period. Again it's an acquired taste, not for everyone, not perfect, just perfect for me as an owner. I have never had a car voluntarily for this amount of time, since 10/03, it's a 04 ap2, I being the original owner, fix and maintain 95% of the car myself, all the maintenance in my garage. I have a 2016 m3 to drive, which is beyond awesome... and some days the Honda beckons me big time. Is it better than an M3, no way, but it beckons and I enjoy it ...cause in the end there are two things....I am happy with my purchase and I enjoy the experience of ownership.
so ask yourself this, life being very short and health being very fragile...if you don't buy it will you regret it...and if you can... do it now... then just do it cause someday you won't be able to!!!!
I can tell you that I have had to deal with much negativity about the lack of power that the gt86 provides. Super insecure dudes who likely have tiny peckers will jump at the chance to remind me of 200 hp. What i say to them is what I quoted from you above.
I am looking for what my gt86 has but a more "intense/amplified" version of that. I want all of those attributes with a bit more. Before creating this account just now, I lusted over the idea of FI for my car for maybe a solid year. I finally came to grip with the fact that I would freak out over every little issue that would inevitably arise in going this route. So I then shifted gears into fantasizing over the miata and going FI there. Why? lower compression, higher success rates. Again, I brought myself right back to the conclusion that I am not a mechanic and it would be a huge money pit and the headaches would ruin my life and my love for the car.
So here I am, the s2k. Based on my research in all of the cars out there (please recommend to me more options if I missed any) in a price range of up to $35k, I found the s2k. its naturally aspirated, its light weight.. its analog, its REAR WHEEL DRIVE. Its a standard, its tiny. the engine. that engine. 8 grand rpm?? serious? I dunno, on paper and based on reviews it just hits all those notes.
A test drive, again really hard to find, will answer some of my questions but not all of them. It takes time and experience before one can really "get" that car. My uncle bought (for like $4k) a really old BMW e30.. not the M version. Its got that straight 6, convertible and that chassis. I must have driven it 3 or 4 times (close to 8 hours total driving time) until this one moment came when I "got it". I turned to him and said "i get this car.. I get it and I love it".
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by sam_spider
On paper, yes the S is quicker, the difference (to me) is that you have to work hard to get those numbers, in real world driving the S is not a fast car. Unless you launch it from a dig, it is not fast, nor is it going to give you a sub 6 second 0-60.
Look at the rolling start #'s for both cars, that's the real world difference, 0.8 seconds.
Sent from my SM-G920P using IB AutoGroup
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,751
Likes: 1,856
Originally Posted by Boofneenee
is the Flashpro reversible backk to the stock tune?
If intense drivers car is what you are after, then the S is your car.
I think you are very wise to avoid aftermarket FI on any car if you aren't going to be very involved in maintaining it. Something that serious is not something you just get in and drive every day, as your daily transportation.
Sent from my SM-G920P using IB AutoGroup