Question about the Toda Header?
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Originally Posted by xviper,May 25 2006, 08:58 AM
Having no heat shield on a header makes for extremely high underhood temps. Personally, I found it necessary to get a vented hood (with Toda header).
In some ways, it's too bad Hondata linked their reflash with a Toda header. What the BIGGER unknown is, what would the reflash would have done all by itself on a totally stock '06. Makes you wonder why they did it with a header at all.
In some ways, it's too bad Hondata linked their reflash with a Toda header. What the BIGGER unknown is, what would the reflash would have done all by itself on a totally stock '06. Makes you wonder why they did it with a header at all.
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Originally Posted by bkmagby,May 25 2006, 09:28 AM
Acoording to the Hondata web site the difference that the Toda header and test pipe made was a whopping 1.9 hp and 1.6 ft/lbs of torque.
Really doesn't seem worth it, if that is accurate and I understand it correctly.
The following is a quote from thier web site:
"This graph shows:
06 S2000 with Heatshield gasket, exhaust and Hondata reflash with stock header and cat - red line.
06 S2000 with Heatshield gasket, exhaust and Hondata reflash with Toda header and test pipe - blue line.
The purpose of this test was to see the difference the Toda header and test pipe made.
The Toda header and test pipe were first tested with the standard Hondata 06 S2000 reflash. The gains were only minimal, partially because the car was running very lean from 5500-6000 rpm. Lowering the VTEC point adding fuel and optimizing the ignition resulted in the reflash detailed above.
Combining an ECU reflash with a Toda header makes more gains than each individual item."
Go to this link: http://www.hondata.com/reflash_s2k_toda_header.html
Then scroll down to the last graph towards the bottom of the page. Look under "Technical"
Really doesn't seem worth it, if that is accurate and I understand it correctly.
The following is a quote from thier web site:
"This graph shows:
06 S2000 with Heatshield gasket, exhaust and Hondata reflash with stock header and cat - red line.
06 S2000 with Heatshield gasket, exhaust and Hondata reflash with Toda header and test pipe - blue line.
The purpose of this test was to see the difference the Toda header and test pipe made.
The Toda header and test pipe were first tested with the standard Hondata 06 S2000 reflash. The gains were only minimal, partially because the car was running very lean from 5500-6000 rpm. Lowering the VTEC point adding fuel and optimizing the ignition resulted in the reflash detailed above.
Combining an ECU reflash with a Toda header makes more gains than each individual item."
Go to this link: http://www.hondata.com/reflash_s2k_toda_header.html
Then scroll down to the last graph towards the bottom of the page. Look under "Technical"
http://www.hondata.com/reflash_s2k_toda_header.html
The green line reflects my S2000 with: Invidia exhaust, Toda exhaust manifold, J's Racing straight pipe and Hondata IMG. NO reflash.
The red line reflects my S2000 with the aforementioned products AND the Hondata ECU reflash. As you can see, there is no real gain top end, but the mid-range gains are very significant.
If there is any question as to whether this reflash is beneficial with the supported mods let me reassure you that it is a no brainer.
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^ I have had zero issues with the Toda header, although I have only had it for about 2 months now. No issues with scraping and my S is lowered about 1.5". No issues with heat--I have the Seibon Mugen-style hood and the vents seem to dissipate the heat nicely. I live in San Diego and it does get warm (although not humid). I have not experienced any heat-soaking issues.
I bought the Toda header because I got a very nice deal on it. If I wouldn't have gotten a deal, I would have bought the Rick's header. I'll probably have my Toda header for another 4-5 months as I am hoping to go turbo before XMAS.
I bought the Toda header because I got a very nice deal on it. If I wouldn't have gotten a deal, I would have bought the Rick's header. I'll probably have my Toda header for another 4-5 months as I am hoping to go turbo before XMAS.
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From: South of the pier, Huntington Beach, CA
I'm in Southern California. That said, I'm not stock so I should probably bow out of the heat sink situation. The factory ECU is pulling timing that my EMS is not.
The header does hang down but would only be a consideration if you have situations where you would high center like a steep cresting drive into your garage or a trailer.
Just lowering the car is not a problem.
The bracket in not important and several people have gone off about it. IMHO, If it is installed correctly the bracket will not break. If it does break, it makes no difference.
The Toda is a nice piece but inadequate for boosted applications. I'm currently designing a new, larger, 4-1 header for supercharged S2000s and will be selling my Toda later this year.
Now, the kicker. The largest advantage of an aftermarket header for NA use is the weight savings of 10 or 12 lbs. That along with an aftermarket exhaust can save 50 lbs. You can actually feel and measure the difference in performance from 50 lbs change. If you are going to compete then the exhaust changes should be considered.
The header does hang down but would only be a consideration if you have situations where you would high center like a steep cresting drive into your garage or a trailer.
Just lowering the car is not a problem.
The bracket in not important and several people have gone off about it. IMHO, If it is installed correctly the bracket will not break. If it does break, it makes no difference.
The Toda is a nice piece but inadequate for boosted applications. I'm currently designing a new, larger, 4-1 header for supercharged S2000s and will be selling my Toda later this year.
Now, the kicker. The largest advantage of an aftermarket header for NA use is the weight savings of 10 or 12 lbs. That along with an aftermarket exhaust can save 50 lbs. You can actually feel and measure the difference in performance from 50 lbs change. If you are going to compete then the exhaust changes should be considered.
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I am planning on staying NA. The main reason that I am considering a header is for the Hondata Reflash. Wait savings are also and interest.
I just don't want to buy a headache if you know what I mean. I want the car to remain completely reliable. I don't want to install a header if it will lead to any annoyance at all.
I think the engine would look so much nicer with a header and no heat shield, it would also save wait, which I have a big interest in, but I am very worried about the heat causing problems or robbing power in the Houston summer heat and humidity. Also, I don't like the idea of the header hanging down lower than the stock header. How much lower than the stock header does it hang?
Does anyone know if the Mugen, J's Racing or Ricks header hang down as low as the Toda?
I like the idea of the added midrange power and torque, I think it would be very beneficial to our cars, but I don't want to give up top end power to get it. I don't want to give up anything ha! ha! I want the added midrange power with out giving up top end power, causing heat related problems, or dragging my header. I want my cake and want to eat it to, ha! ha!
Oh, by the way, can you see the Toda hanging down beneath the car? Is it noticeable?
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Also, I do not know if I want to go with a test pipe as I am afraid of what I will have to do come time for the car to pass smog checks, but I am interested in the power improvements and wait savings.