Realistic S2000 Value
07-25-2018, 06:31 AM
#1
Realistic S2000 Value
Hi All,
Long time lurker, I've been using this site for almost nine years now on the rare occasion I have an issue with my S, and much more often when I've fantasized about what I want to do to improve my car. This community has been an endless resource, and I regret not being a more active part of it. Unfortunately, I'm reaching the point where I feel my time with my S is coming to a close (likely within the next few months). I would love to restore the car and keep it, but I live in a city and don't have access to a second parking spot (short of renting another storage unit for my S or walking blocks to get to my hypothetical daily driver each day). On top of that, I move for work every 1-2 years, and the prospect of shipping a car each time just seems impractical. The S has ruined me for other cars, to the point that the most realistic car I can see replacing it with is a few year old Cayman S (which fortunately I'm in a position to fairly easily afford if that's the direction I decide to go)... believe me, compared to other options I considered, that is a reasonable and realistic choice lol
.
My problem is this: I can't find an S2000 listed for even close to what I paid 9 years and 95000 miles ago, and I have no idea what these cars are worth these days, given that mine has been a daily driver. I'm hoping you guys can help me out and give me a realistic range. I normally go by book values, but those don't seem to even be in the ballpark of what S2000s are going for. I'll detail the car below, and thanks in advance for your help.
I was fortunate enough to have a father (whose insurance I was on) go "why not?" when he saw me looking at S2000s at 18 years old with two tickets (I haven't gotten one since, so maybe it was a good call
). I was also fortunate to find someone selling a 2001 S2000 (with the good motor 
) for a reasonable price. Higher mileage (for the time) but in great shape. This was 2009, and its been my daily driver ever since despite my shoulders being wider than the seat and my head touching the roof.
Basics:
2001 Silverstone AP1, original motor, only "performance" mods are a K&N filter in the stock box (it was somehow the cheapest option last time I did it) and upgraded pressure plate. Suspension and Engine are stock (and original as far as I know) otherwise. Bought in 2009 at ~115000 miles, currently sits at 210000. Miles are mostly highway (I've driven more miles so far this year than any whole single year previously, 25+ mile each way highway commute, car has been from central GA to central FL multiple times, central GA to KY several times, ATL to Seattle and back, and ATL to SLC where it lives now). Mechanically sound, cosmetically not as good. Despite me seeing so many flaws, I get compliments on the car all the time... it's weird.
The car has been mechanically bulletproof:
Clutch was just done for the first time since I've owned it (ACT Pressure plate, OEM flywheel, friction disk, pilot bearing, throwout bearing, grease).
Serpentine belt/air filter done at the same time.
Minor misfire issue a year or so ago led to new (OEM) injectors and coil packs.
Did the engine mounts around the same time, as well as a Billman upgraded TCT as a preventative measure.
Did a major service at ~180k: all fluids (including diff, clutch, etc.), replaced some aging coolant lines, rotors and pads on all four corners (aftermarket unfortunately), stainless brake lines.
VTEC solenoid replaced a few years back.
Oil has been done on interval or more often with Mobil 1 Synthetic for the entire time I've had it, burns ~2 quarts every 7500 miles.
Pulls to redline in gears 1-3 (and probably higher, but 3 is already approaching go to jail territory so I don't know for sure). No known mechanical issues.
Other positives:
Original owner replaced soft top assembly (frame, motors, everything) with one from an '04 to get a glass window, I've replaced the top once during my ownership of it. Current top has a couple minor wear spots, but is sound.
Sits on Volk TE37s (18x7.5 front, 18x8.5 rear) in gunmetal, which match the car great in my opinion, no fender mods required, been running on them for 6+ years without issues.
Neutrals:
Windshield recently replaced (several rock chips finally made me).
Interior:
Carpets in decent shape, as are doors and dash, no major flaws.
Seats were rebuilt and re-upholstered (black with perf. grey center) in catskinz leather a few years back, in great shape, minimal bolster wear.
Have eBay rollbar speaker mounts (easily removed) with decent coaxial speakers, door speakers were replaced by the original owner with bass woofers (paired with tweeters that were damaged and removed). Tweeters were mounted to the dash without cutting, so no damage there.
Generally in good shape considering ~210000 miles of daily use.
Driver side window-to-soft top seal likes to come off mount when it's hot out, goes back on easily and only leaks if put back incorrectly, but should probably be replaced.
Exterior:
Paint looks its age, many, many fines scratches on the trunk. Various minor dings.
Been in a few fender benders (twice hit when parked), over the span of my ownership both bumpers replaced, one fender replaced, hood replaced with Seibon Vented CF hood, door skin repaired, one tail light and one headlight replaced.
Other fender has a significant dent above the wheel, needs to be replaced.
Carbon hood is heavily clouded.
Non-replaced headlight needs to be restored (cloudy)
Two of the rims have had minor repairs and been repainted (years ago, completely sound), the other two need to be repainted.
Generally things don't fit together as well as they should (I hate all body shops at this point
).
I think that's about it, I know pictures would help but I can't take pictures at my workplace, so I won't be able to get any in daylight until this weekend.
I apologize for the novel, but I'm at a loss for what this car is worth and I really hope you guys can help.
Thank you so much in advance.
Long time lurker, I've been using this site for almost nine years now on the rare occasion I have an issue with my S, and much more often when I've fantasized about what I want to do to improve my car. This community has been an endless resource, and I regret not being a more active part of it. Unfortunately, I'm reaching the point where I feel my time with my S is coming to a close (likely within the next few months). I would love to restore the car and keep it, but I live in a city and don't have access to a second parking spot (short of renting another storage unit for my S or walking blocks to get to my hypothetical daily driver each day). On top of that, I move for work every 1-2 years, and the prospect of shipping a car each time just seems impractical. The S has ruined me for other cars, to the point that the most realistic car I can see replacing it with is a few year old Cayman S (which fortunately I'm in a position to fairly easily afford if that's the direction I decide to go)... believe me, compared to other options I considered, that is a reasonable and realistic choice lol
.My problem is this: I can't find an S2000 listed for even close to what I paid 9 years and 95000 miles ago, and I have no idea what these cars are worth these days, given that mine has been a daily driver. I'm hoping you guys can help me out and give me a realistic range. I normally go by book values, but those don't seem to even be in the ballpark of what S2000s are going for. I'll detail the car below, and thanks in advance for your help.
I was fortunate enough to have a father (whose insurance I was on) go "why not?" when he saw me looking at S2000s at 18 years old with two tickets (I haven't gotten one since, so maybe it was a good call
). I was also fortunate to find someone selling a 2001 S2000 (with the good motor ) for a reasonable price. Higher mileage (for the time) but in great shape. This was 2009, and its been my daily driver ever since despite my shoulders being wider than the seat and my head touching the roof.Basics:
2001 Silverstone AP1, original motor, only "performance" mods are a K&N filter in the stock box (it was somehow the cheapest option last time I did it) and upgraded pressure plate. Suspension and Engine are stock (and original as far as I know) otherwise. Bought in 2009 at ~115000 miles, currently sits at 210000. Miles are mostly highway (I've driven more miles so far this year than any whole single year previously, 25+ mile each way highway commute, car has been from central GA to central FL multiple times, central GA to KY several times, ATL to Seattle and back, and ATL to SLC where it lives now). Mechanically sound, cosmetically not as good. Despite me seeing so many flaws, I get compliments on the car all the time... it's weird.
The car has been mechanically bulletproof:
Clutch was just done for the first time since I've owned it (ACT Pressure plate, OEM flywheel, friction disk, pilot bearing, throwout bearing, grease).
Serpentine belt/air filter done at the same time.
Minor misfire issue a year or so ago led to new (OEM) injectors and coil packs.
Did the engine mounts around the same time, as well as a Billman upgraded TCT as a preventative measure.
Did a major service at ~180k: all fluids (including diff, clutch, etc.), replaced some aging coolant lines, rotors and pads on all four corners (aftermarket unfortunately), stainless brake lines.
VTEC solenoid replaced a few years back.
Oil has been done on interval or more often with Mobil 1 Synthetic for the entire time I've had it, burns ~2 quarts every 7500 miles.
Pulls to redline in gears 1-3 (and probably higher, but 3 is already approaching go to jail territory so I don't know for sure). No known mechanical issues.
Other positives:
Original owner replaced soft top assembly (frame, motors, everything) with one from an '04 to get a glass window, I've replaced the top once during my ownership of it. Current top has a couple minor wear spots, but is sound.
Sits on Volk TE37s (18x7.5 front, 18x8.5 rear) in gunmetal, which match the car great in my opinion, no fender mods required, been running on them for 6+ years without issues.
Neutrals:
Windshield recently replaced (several rock chips finally made me).
Interior:
Carpets in decent shape, as are doors and dash, no major flaws.
Seats were rebuilt and re-upholstered (black with perf. grey center) in catskinz leather a few years back, in great shape, minimal bolster wear.
Have eBay rollbar speaker mounts (easily removed) with decent coaxial speakers, door speakers were replaced by the original owner with bass woofers (paired with tweeters that were damaged and removed). Tweeters were mounted to the dash without cutting, so no damage there.
Generally in good shape considering ~210000 miles of daily use.
Driver side window-to-soft top seal likes to come off mount when it's hot out, goes back on easily and only leaks if put back incorrectly, but should probably be replaced.
Exterior:
Paint looks its age, many, many fines scratches on the trunk. Various minor dings.
Been in a few fender benders (twice hit when parked), over the span of my ownership both bumpers replaced, one fender replaced, hood replaced with Seibon Vented CF hood, door skin repaired, one tail light and one headlight replaced.
Other fender has a significant dent above the wheel, needs to be replaced.
Carbon hood is heavily clouded.
Non-replaced headlight needs to be restored (cloudy)
Two of the rims have had minor repairs and been repainted (years ago, completely sound), the other two need to be repainted.
Generally things don't fit together as well as they should (I hate all body shops at this point
).I think that's about it, I know pictures would help but I can't take pictures at my workplace, so I won't be able to get any in daylight until this weekend.
I apologize for the novel, but I'm at a loss for what this car is worth and I really hope you guys can help.
Thank you so much in advance.
07-25-2018, 07:51 AM
#2
You have done a lot of maintenance, which is good, but mileage like that will scare off a lot of people. Hondas are known for going a long way but it will still scare people off and limit your market. People don't typically want to wonder how many more trouble free miles they will get out of the drive train so the price will have to reflect the risk. Despite the maintenance you have done, the new buyer will have a lot of work and expense to bring the car back up to scratch and that has to be factored into the price. When looking at used cars, I ALWAYS factor in what I think it will cost me to bring it up to my standard and that lets me know whether to pay or walk away. The people who will be interested in this car will have lofty expectations so it will be a tough sell unless it is priced accordingly.
Had it been me, I would have bought a cheapo well-used car like a Toyota Corolla or something to handle commutes. The purchase of that car may have been cheaper than the depreciation on the S2000. I can see why you wouldn't have done that if you move a lot, though.
There seem to be two classifications of S2000's these days. The low mileage, unmolested examples fetch a premium and are trending upwards (19k+). The "driven" cars still command a decent lower tier price if they are taken care of and unmolested (13-19k). Yours does have a lot that drives the price down, unfortunately. You are looking at a disappointing figure with a limited market. Without having pictures to go by, I'd say you are sitting at sub 9k right now.
Just my opinion, though. I could be way off base with my limited S2k experience.
Had it been me, I would have bought a cheapo well-used car like a Toyota Corolla or something to handle commutes. The purchase of that car may have been cheaper than the depreciation on the S2000. I can see why you wouldn't have done that if you move a lot, though.
There seem to be two classifications of S2000's these days. The low mileage, unmolested examples fetch a premium and are trending upwards (19k+). The "driven" cars still command a decent lower tier price if they are taken care of and unmolested (13-19k). Yours does have a lot that drives the price down, unfortunately. You are looking at a disappointing figure with a limited market. Without having pictures to go by, I'd say you are sitting at sub 9k right now.
Just my opinion, though. I could be way off base with my limited S2k experience.
Last edited by IA-SteveB; 07-25-2018 at 08:48 AM.
07-25-2018, 07:53 AM
#3
I'll give you a honest opinion as someone who is preparing to purchase his first S2000. If this comes off as negative and/or disrespectful, let me apologize in advance. I'm going through your post as if it were an actual listing and I'm checking out a car that I may purchase myself.
Truthfully, and I'll be blunt here. I would be looking for significant discount to take ownership of the car. Here's why:
- Used, 200,000+ miles is not exactly confidence inspiring. I know it's a Honda, I know about longevity of these motors if taken cared of. But in my back of my mind, I'm thinking... "This is a S2000, if the previous owner knew anything about the car, s/he would have driven it hard (as it was supposed to). I'm not sure I want to take ownership of a car that's been redlined for most of the 200,000+ miles." (I'm assuming here that you enjoyed driving the car as it was intended to)
- Your motor burns through 2 quarts of oil every 7,500 miles. That's quite significant.
- You don't have many original components left on the car.
- Your interior has been redone.
- Paint and body needs significant work from what I can read.
- Appreciate the honesty
, but several other components are due for replacement.
- Car's been hit several times.
- You live/lived in Salt Lake City. I'd be weary of snow and salted roads related rust and corrosion.
Please don't be offended. But I really went through your post if I was looking at the car myself, and what I listed are just major personal no-no's.
Truthfully, and I'll be blunt here. I would be looking for significant discount to take ownership of the car. Here's why:
- Used, 200,000+ miles is not exactly confidence inspiring. I know it's a Honda, I know about longevity of these motors if taken cared of. But in my back of my mind, I'm thinking... "This is a S2000, if the previous owner knew anything about the car, s/he would have driven it hard (as it was supposed to). I'm not sure I want to take ownership of a car that's been redlined for most of the 200,000+ miles." (I'm assuming here that you enjoyed driving the car as it was intended to)
- Your motor burns through 2 quarts of oil every 7,500 miles. That's quite significant.
- You don't have many original components left on the car.
- Your interior has been redone.
- Paint and body needs significant work from what I can read.
- Appreciate the honesty
, but several other components are due for replacement.- Car's been hit several times.
- You live/lived in Salt Lake City. I'd be weary of snow and salted roads related rust and corrosion.
Please don't be offended. But I really went through your post if I was looking at the car myself, and what I listed are just major personal no-no's.
The following users liked this post:
Diablosangelis (07-25-2018)
07-25-2018, 08:13 AM
#4
SteveB: I appreciate the insight, and to be honest anywhere near 9k wouldn't be disappointing, I wouldn't have thought to ask near that (book says maybe half that).
SCSL: I appreciate the honesty, not offended at all, I expect to sell it at a deep discount compared to most examples I see, as I'm well aware it's a restoration job. I actually drive mostly like a grandma (with occasional fun) hence the 100k+ clutch life and no tickets, but I completely understand why you'd think that. The AP1 engine burns oil from factory as far as I'm aware (in some cases at least) 2Qts isn't small, but there's also no indication it's unhealthy as that isn't a new phenomenon (some people claim healthy engines and 1qt/1000 miles when driven hard in the AP1s). The rest I agree with, and appreciate, although I will mention the car has been in SLC less than a year.
SCSL: I appreciate the honesty, not offended at all, I expect to sell it at a deep discount compared to most examples I see, as I'm well aware it's a restoration job. I actually drive mostly like a grandma (with occasional fun) hence the 100k+ clutch life and no tickets, but I completely understand why you'd think that. The AP1 engine burns oil from factory as far as I'm aware (in some cases at least) 2Qts isn't small, but there's also no indication it's unhealthy as that isn't a new phenomenon (some people claim healthy engines and 1qt/1000 miles when driven hard in the AP1s). The rest I agree with, and appreciate, although I will mention the car has been in SLC less than a year.
07-25-2018, 08:22 AM
#5
I don't go by book value unless it is a newer car. There are so many variables with 10+ year old cars that you have to let the market dictate the price, not a blue book. You really have to look at the for sale ads here to see what you are up against. These are legendary cars which helps, but condition is everything with used cars.
Last edited by IA-SteveB; 07-25-2018 at 08:25 AM.
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Diablosangelis (07-25-2018)
07-25-2018, 08:28 AM
#6
SteveB: Thanks again! Problem I'm running into is finding something comparable in any market (which is good, it means most of these cars are in better condition). I appreciate the insight.
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07-25-2018, 08:32 AM
#8
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto...633940154.html
Now I feel like I should go see those cars, shit on it, and purposely waste the owner's time for the bullshit they're trying to pull.
07-25-2018, 08:35 AM
#9
I'm very glad I asked, I would've asked much lower most likely. I didn't even pay 9k when I bought it, I would've been asking near those salvage prices at most. Not thinking I can get 9k, just thinking my initial estimates might have been low. Thank you all again!
07-25-2018, 08:36 AM
#10
SteveB: I appreciate the insight, and to be honest anywhere near 9k wouldn't be disappointing, I wouldn't have thought to ask near that (book says maybe half that).
SCSL: I appreciate the honesty, not offended at all, I expect to sell it at a deep discount compared to most examples I see, as I'm well aware it's a restoration job. I actually drive mostly like a grandma (with occasional fun) hence the 100k+ clutch life and no tickets, but I completely understand why you'd think that. The AP1 engine burns oil from factory as far as I'm aware (in some cases at least) 2Qts isn't small, but there's also no indication it's unhealthy as that isn't a new phenomenon (some people claim healthy engines and 1qt/1000 miles when driven hard in the AP1s). The rest I agree with, and appreciate, although I will mention the car has been in SLC less than a year.
SCSL: I appreciate the honesty, not offended at all, I expect to sell it at a deep discount compared to most examples I see, as I'm well aware it's a restoration job. I actually drive mostly like a grandma (with occasional fun) hence the 100k+ clutch life and no tickets, but I completely understand why you'd think that. The AP1 engine burns oil from factory as far as I'm aware (in some cases at least) 2Qts isn't small, but there's also no indication it's unhealthy as that isn't a new phenomenon (some people claim healthy engines and 1qt/1000 miles when driven hard in the AP1s). The rest I agree with, and appreciate, although I will mention the car has been in SLC less than a year.
Bought my 2002 in 2008 for $12,900 with 98k miles on it. Was a 1 owner that traded it in for a AP2.
Mine currently has 187k miles and was my daily for about half the time I had it. In the last 3 years, it's seen prob about 6,000 miles.
It's also lowered, has a CAI, and single exhaust, but I made sure to keep all the stock stuff if I ever needed it. Mine burns some oil too, but I'm not sure the ratio. (All AP1's do)
It's been backed into 2 times, once by the wife in the driveway, the other time I was at a stop sign and was backed into in the side by someone leaving their driveway.
I replace the top with a cloth robbins top about 4 years ago and it still looks new today.
I'm not naive either about the sale price I could get. I'm guessing I could possibly get $6-7K.
Since the Viper got here, I'm out of garage space and might have to make a hard decision. Problem is the $6-7K is just going to pay something down, so It will feel like I'm just losing the S2k. It's worth more to me than anything I could get for it.
Hopefully I can just keep it.
Last edited by lane_viper; 07-25-2018 at 08:39 AM.
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Diablosangelis (07-25-2018)