what does that have to do with anything?

Cheap shots like that only discredit everything you've said.

 

Wow - that adds a lot to the argument douge.

 

Whose arguing? I didn't realize the guy(girl) was from another country that at least as of now is not under the protection of the US constitution. That, of course, could all change.

Personal freedoms outside of the US are not the same and may influence ones opinion.

 

I can't believe what some of you have posted, other than to say "rude" is not something that is attractive, ever. Juvenile responses do not garner respect.

The issue of automotive forensics, and who "owns" the data will be one of incrteasing noteworthiness in the years to come - think of me when 60 Minutes covers it.

There really is no case law yet as far as I have been able to determine, as I started to do discovery on this topic for an article I was planning to write for C&D or Road and Track.

Are the data yours, or is it information that can be supoenaed in the course of an investigation by the police, your insurance company, or another's? What will the retention laws be? Is a search warrant required before the info can be downloaded? All these questions and more will be argued back and forth - heck, the Patriot Act might be amended to cover this info as well!

Also consider this - as an IT professional, I can imagine that software could easily be created to sweep your "black box" clean, by overwriting it with binary 1's for example. Will that be outlawed as obstruction of justice?

I think it should be obvious that the permutations of legality are mind-boggling on this one.

Also consider this for you "1984" anti-govt conspiracy guys:

It is entirely feasible to design and build a system that sends automotive data to a receiving unit on the side of the road. It would require a transponder in the car, and the approrpiate software to drive it. Already, you have an electronic speedometer, the ABS system has info that is useful, and the anti-skid technology has info on vehicle "attitude" - yaw, pitch, etc. Your VIN could easily be captured at the time of manufacture. This could easily be sent to the receiver and captured in a database for retrieval later.

Or how about this. The speed limit is 55 mph. You drive at 70 mph. Software transmits your VIN and speed to the receiver, which is indexed to your registration, and a week or so later you get a nice note from the DMV citing your crime, the points, and the automatic debit of your bank account, should not decide not to appear in person and fight the case. On what basis would you fight - speedo error?

Sound farfetched? Well, who could have imagined photo radar, but it is in use around the world. Civil liberties are chipped away, not taken away in a grand stroke.

On the other hand, some of the attitudes expressed by posters in this thread make one wonder if maybe it is not such a bad idea in some cases.

One thing is for sure, if this kind of surveillance and prosecution becomes accepted and widespread, you can say good bye to performance driving on many streets, and be prepared for insurance surcharges. Even if you drive only on a closed course, your car could rat you out, since the same data on vehcile speed, yaw, etc are captured and available - hell, they may just program in a code that gets set by the track itself, and notifies your insurance carrier.

 

You have entirely to much time on your hands and I believe that the black box is your personal property and should be treated as such. You are also free to clean your box just as a rampaging maniac may choose to wipe his prints from a murder weapon.

Driving on public streets and highways is a priviledge but I do not believe that you wave your rights to privacy, or unlawful search. The easier problem to solve is how to keep the box or the info out of your car not how to keep the authorities from collecting the data.

 

How far are we from requiring gps sensors and transponders in every car?

The amateur radio world already has a ham network, tied to the internet, which monitors radio stations' positions and posts the positions IN REAL TIME at map.findu.com (no www). If you want to see mobile stations near my home, just go to http://map.findu.com/wt7t-6 .

Find out more about APRS (automatic packet/position reporting system) at www.tapr.org and at http://web.usna.navy.mil/~bruninga/APRS-docs/APRS.TXT

SO, in the amateur world there's a zillion of us volunteering to mount gps receivers and 2 meter radio/packet transponders and link to the world wide web.

It is a zero technological step to have every car have a gps unit/radio transponder and it would be easy for the police to spot dangerous driving and pounce on the perpetrator.

Do you think it is a question if if or when?

 

I think douge has a cloudy distinction between freedom and legality.

Sure, you CAN wipe off the fingerprints....but just because you can, doesn't mean its legal, or right for that matter.

No where in your constitution does it state that you're free to harm others and then hide the evidence that would convict you.

 

The technology is already availble in comercial form.

I work for the phone company and in order to route me repair tickets that are close to me, my company van has a GPS locator. Its about the size of a shoebox behind my seat.
Small GPS antenna on the roof and another cellular antenna next to it. Sends my position as an SMS message every few minutes, or if im speeding (yes, speeding) and somebody tells me to slow down over the speaker mounted in the headliner. It also has a mic so you can talk back to the dispatch center.

It was supposed to be used to route repair tickets to us in an efficient manner
Management still cant get us work thats close by, but I know numerous techs that have been disaplined for speeding or being "out of route" (being where you should be)

My step-dad is Tech at a chevy dealer, the latest Vettes store the last 1000 miles or so of driving so the dealer can diagnose problems. Knows how fast you were going, when, for how long, your throttle %, accel G's, wheel spin, rpm, spark advance, if the radio was on, lights... Everything

One day this will be mandatory.

 

Sorry, I've been away for a few hours. My comment was directed at douge's quote:
Where in the constitution do you have the right to break the law?

Gerry

 

Are you saying its against the law to break the law? lol