the S2000 motor
06-23-2005, 07:41 AM
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the S2000 motor
[B][U]Well this is my first post here on your forum I need some help soon I will be buying a new car, but I wanted to know if the S2000 motor can be put into a RSX type
06-23-2005, 08:20 AM
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Why bother? ... With K-Pro and some bolt on mods you can be just as fast as an S2000. The K series motors have so much potential. The S2000 motor pretty much has almost all of its potential sucked out already ... The only real performance gain there is to go F/I.
If you want to swap something in, swap in a K24 from the TSX instead of an F series. The extra torque from the 2.4L motor makes the already lightweight RSX a beast. Add Hondata for some extra revs and power.
If you want to swap something in, swap in a K24 from the TSX instead of an F series. The extra torque from the 2.4L motor makes the already lightweight RSX a beast. Add Hondata for some extra revs and power.
06-23-2005, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by LiQiCE,Jun 23 2005, 12:20 PM
Why bother? ... With K-Pro and some bolt on mods you can be just as fast as an S2000. The K series motors have so much potential. The S2000 motor pretty much has almost all of its potential sucked out already ... The only real performance gain there is to go F/I.
If you want to swap something in, swap in a K24 from the TSX instead of an F series. The extra torque from the 2.4L motor makes the already lightweight RSX a beast. Add Hondata for some extra revs and power.
If you want to swap something in, swap in a K24 from the TSX instead of an F series. The extra torque from the 2.4L motor makes the already lightweight RSX a beast. Add Hondata for some extra revs and power.
Really no point IMO of swapping in an F20 unless you just want the bling factor. MUCH more potential with the K24 NA or just taking the K20 the FI route. Heck for about $5-6k (before installation) you can have a Cybernation Turbo kit on a K20A2 and wreak havoc on pretty much any stock or lightly modded S2000.
Or...for around $5-7k (depending on where you find one) you could swap in the K20A from the Type-R and have almost as much power NA as the F20C makes. Best of all it is a straight swap.
Craig
06-23-2005, 10:14 AM
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putting a F20 into an RSX would require a custom bell housing for the RSX transmission. I have seen a pic of ONE F20C with a FWD transmission. I have never seen one in an actual car, though.
The F20C does have more potential as-is due to its higher flowing head and valvetrain. The K20 will have a meatier powerband due to the cam timing adjustability on-the-fly. The K20 does not have the ligher forged internals; trying to spin the K20 to 9000rpm is not going to give you 100K mile reliablitiy on the bottom end...the bearings will very likely give up the ghost. The difference between 8000 and 9000 doesn't seem like a lot, but from what I am told, the forces acting on the bottom end are DOUBLE, DOUBLE that at 9000. Honestly think Honda built that kind of "safety margin" in the cast parts on the K-series? Your money!
The F20s disadvantage and the K20 advantage is in the flashable ECU on the K20 (so you can do a Hondata map). To get that kind of potential with a F20, you would need an AEM EMS or similar. All in all, I think the F20 will make more top-end power (unless you ported/polished the K20).
One thing that many people do is compare power ratings. 200HP from a RWD car is more crank HP than 200HP from a FWD car. Drivetrain losses on a RWD car are significantly greater.
In summary, stick with the K20. It will be cheaper to extract potential. The $ to put in a F20C is going to be a lot. I would imagine at least $8K, including F20C and RSX tranny.
One thing many S2000 owners would like to see is a K20 powered S2000. All in all, I think the F20C has more ULTIMATE potential, but the K20 is definitely the cheaper way to do it.
The F20C does have more potential as-is due to its higher flowing head and valvetrain. The K20 will have a meatier powerband due to the cam timing adjustability on-the-fly. The K20 does not have the ligher forged internals; trying to spin the K20 to 9000rpm is not going to give you 100K mile reliablitiy on the bottom end...the bearings will very likely give up the ghost. The difference between 8000 and 9000 doesn't seem like a lot, but from what I am told, the forces acting on the bottom end are DOUBLE, DOUBLE that at 9000. Honestly think Honda built that kind of "safety margin" in the cast parts on the K-series? Your money!
The F20s disadvantage and the K20 advantage is in the flashable ECU on the K20 (so you can do a Hondata map). To get that kind of potential with a F20, you would need an AEM EMS or similar. All in all, I think the F20 will make more top-end power (unless you ported/polished the K20).
One thing that many people do is compare power ratings. 200HP from a RWD car is more crank HP than 200HP from a FWD car. Drivetrain losses on a RWD car are significantly greater.
In summary, stick with the K20. It will be cheaper to extract potential. The $ to put in a F20C is going to be a lot. I would imagine at least $8K, including F20C and RSX tranny.
One thing many S2000 owners would like to see is a K20 powered S2000. All in all, I think the F20C has more ULTIMATE potential, but the K20 is definitely the cheaper way to do it.
06-23-2005, 10:24 AM
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For the record, I don't think this swap makes sense at all.
I'm pretty sure the only advantage to that is for better fuel economy at lower RPMs. You can always just get more aggressive cams...
From what I can see, the AEM ems is not that much more than Hondata... And I like the idea of having an unmolested factory ECU to put back in for smogging...(Although you probably wouldn't get it without lots of other CARB unfriendly mods...)
price on hondata.com for K-pro $995 - Retail price (ECU must be sent to Hondata or authorized installer). EEEEEK!
Originally Posted by steven975
The K20 will have a meatier powerband due to the cam timing adjustability on-the-fly.
Originally Posted by steven975
The F20s disadvantage and the K20 advantage is in the flashable ECU on the K20 (so you can do a Hondata map). To get that kind of potential with a F20, you would need an AEM EMS or similar.
price on hondata.com for K-pro $995 - Retail price (ECU must be sent to Hondata or authorized installer). EEEEEK!
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06-23-2005, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jasonw,Jun 23 2005, 10:24 AM
I'm pretty sure the only advantage to that is for better fuel economy at lower RPMs. You can always just get more aggressive cams...
People put cam gears on their B and H series to "tune" the powerband. Holes in certain parts could be removed, but at an expense somewhere else. The K-series has the POTENTIAL to extract maximum HP at every RPM by continuously adjusting its cam gear. It is not stuck on one setting like the B and H were.
06-23-2005, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by koala,Jun 23 2005, 10:31 AM
It won't fit in the RSX engine bay.
Just do toda's k series engine kit. 300 NA HP.
Just do toda's k series engine kit. 300 NA HP.
With the right bell-housing, it should fit.
I've seen pics of a K tranny on a F20C in fact.
06-23-2005, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by steven975,Jun 23 2005, 11:31 AM
Actually, the ECU varies the cam timing based on many variables. Fuel economy is the goal of the regular K20 in the Si and RSX (and the K24 in the Accord, Element, and CRV), but performance is the goal of the VTC in the TSX, RSX-S and RSX-R
People put cam gears on their B and H series to "tune" the powerband. Holes in certain parts could be removed, but at an expense somewhere else. The K-series has the POTENTIAL to extract maximum HP at every RPM by continuously adjusting its cam gear. It is not stuck on one setting like the B and H were.
People put cam gears on their B and H series to "tune" the powerband. Holes in certain parts could be removed, but at an expense somewhere else. The K-series has the POTENTIAL to extract maximum HP at every RPM by continuously adjusting its cam gear. It is not stuck on one setting like the B and H were.
I know the ITR is tuned more aggressively but, it seems like Honda would have utilized iVTEC in the AP2 if it made worthwhile gains...