lol

i think they drive faster here in the city...

i shift at about 4-4.5k before i really start to pull away from traffic here in salt lake city, which i think peaks in the neigborhood of 80-100-ish whp (AP2@WOT) to my ~2800lb car.

of course, i dont go at WOT, so maybe i am only using 30whp after all... and the ~30whp beetle might weight 800lbs wet for all i know--crash standards in the 60s werent what they are today, so cars werent so heavy.

after all that typing, maybe they do drive the same here after all?

 

haha well that reminds me of the time I tried to short shift under 3k for an entire tank of gas. *edit i think my goal was 2k but that wasnt possible, so i tried to keep it under 2.5K

HOLY CRAP the s2k was getting beaten by old men in walkers. I'd end up in 6th at 45 something mph. lol

In order to drive my s2k normally and stay consisiant with traffic i usually take it to about 4500 rpms each shift. 5k if i feel like driving briskly and that is plenty enough to scoot along. VTEC would be total overkill for driving down most any street, though it makes for good onramp fun.

 

Ace123 and GrandMasterKhan ...

One of the things that surprised me today, was that when I'd get the clutch out gently (no launch to speak of), and then nail the gas, I was at 4,500 RPM almost as quickly as I could squeeze the gas pedal all the way to the floor. It was really HARD to run at WOT and still shift at 4.5k, because 4,500 just comes up too quickly at WOT.

In normal street driving I generally shift between 4k and 5k, but I'm generally accelerating at part throttle, and the engine is allowed to "rev freely." If I want to "blast away from traffic" I generally let her rev to 6k, becaue that's way more than enough, and if I go past 6k, VTEC engages, the noise level goes way up, attracts unwanted attention, and when combined with the insane (for the street) acceleration does nothing but invite tickets and impound. Idle to 6k is perfect for "normal street driving." VTEC is for when you want to get serious.

 

Maybe, but I'm skeptical.

Back in '67-'69 I drove a VW in Riverside California. It was a 1500S Ghia, rather than a 36 HP Beatle, so the car had a little more power, but was also heavier, and wasn't really that much quicker. Back then the "stoplight grandprix" was a national passtime, and being a "dumb kid" I was out there every Friday and Saturday night, taking part in the local street racing scene. The Ghia may have had all of 72 HP (I'm not really sure), but even in a town full of kids driving crazy fast cars, I only lost ONE race in the little Ghia, and that was against a Spitfire. The "trick" was in the launch. Because the gearing is so low, and because I had very sticky tires on the car, I could JUMP to about 25 MPH at the drop of a hat. I could beat almost anyone through an intersection, I guess partly due to reaction time, but also do to the way I'd launch, so I'd beat faster cars through an intersection, then shut down and act like they weren't even worth my effort. I'd already beaten them, in the first 60', and anything more would just be a waste of my time (plus, I'd get my doors blown off, but nobody else had any way of knowing that).

People drive like slugs on the street, even in places like Atlanta and LA. Sure, they go 80-90 MPH on the interstates, but most people never push the accelerator more than half way to the floor, so you can dust off normal traffic in just about anything that is quicker than a Moped.

 

[QUOTE=RED MX5,Mar 5 2008, 08:30 PM]Back in '67-'69 I drove a VW in Riverside California.

 

If you engage VTEC in any of the first three gears, on the street, you are guilty of exhibition of speed.

That's not true. S2000 (F20c) at 6000rpm:
1. in the 1st gear is 46kph (ie. 28mph)
2. in 2nd gear is 72kph (ie. 45mph)
3. in 3rd gear is 96kph (ie. 60mph).

So you can stay well within the law in the the first 3 gears and still be in town.

Though, what's legal or not is off topic here as I'm interested in the acceleration numbers for the given scenario from an S2000.

So saying that time to VTEC is an issue in "normal street driving" is just BS.

Whether it is or not is a bit irrelevant when it comes to my original question. But to entertain the though, then how else do you get to ~46kph (ie. ~28mph) from a a set of the lights, stop signs, etc? Me, I just ease the clutch out at around 1000rpm and then accelerate the car once the gear/clutch is engaged in 1st gear. Isn't that what most people do?

An E320 Benz will stay with a stock S2000 until the S2000 hits VTEC

Thanks. That's what I'm interested in.

ps. I'm not claiming (or trying to insinuate) that S2000 is lacking in any way or that it's not quick enough below VTEC. I'm just interested how it compares to MX5 in these circumstances.

you need to be honest with us, and admit that you aren't using VTEC in normal street driving

What does that have to do with anything? I use any part of my rev-range (and VTEC) anytime I like. I dont think that has any bearing on my question (or the answer to my question).

How is the average GTech owner more qualified to calibrate his instrument than the average GTech owner

Simple. Compare the data from the G'tech to the data published in the magazines and see if they match. If they are within ballpark then I'd consider the data accurate enough for the purpose of this discussion. (ie. see if the 40 to 60mph time matches).

I have no problem with power / torque figure ... just not from a dyno. manufactorer claims have to meet certain laws / standards while dyno figures do not. As I mentioned before, it's pretty common to see same make cars with different dyno readings and the 2 cars having pretty much identical accelerations (or the car with the lower dyno numebers being quicker). That's why I don't think that going of dynos plots will shed any light on my question. I posted a dyno plot of the MX5 before to show how different that was from the one you posted.

How much actual experience do you have in performance measurement with different devices?

Again not sure what this has to do with my original qustion. In short, all the time ie. at least every few weeks. Have used 3 different variations of G'tech, Drift Box (ie. GPS data logging device), DL1 data logger (amother GPS data logger) and also all sorts of other beam timers on tracks.

Though, it this thread I don't really care about how accurate they are or what it takes for them to be accurate. What I'm interested to know is where the S2000 will be ahead / behind, and when/where it it will dropping back / gaining (given my scenario).

If people are kind enough to post the data, then I'm comfortable enough to figure out whether the data is repesentative or erroneous.

I have a friend with an MX5 and i do notice it being a star at low reves we run close till vtec with out a launch

Is that the new shape MX5 (ie. NC) and with the 2.0L engine? Would love to hear more details in regards to how 'close' it is. Is the MX5 quicker at any stage, or vice versa?

 

No the mx5 is never faster and yes it is an NC... We are not even at any point and i am not killing the gas either... I have a few mods so at peek i am making 100 or so horse power more in a car that is only 300 lbs heavier.. A slip of the clutch will let rpms up to a nice power point and the mx5 just does not have that kind of versitilaty.......
The power curve is pretty consistant in the mx5.
With out any fancy clutch work the MX5 Does have a bit more power around idle 2k ect. so crank to crank a 2-3 mph run the mx5 will leap infront quickly only to fall back.

But that is all to bog at such low rpms. The F22c1 has a very short stroke enableing it to spin so fast. So around idle all it does is bog.

Does that make sence? Cause he and i run all the time.

His mx5 Catless mid pipe only= 1/4time is like 14.9 and change.

My 05 AP2 with CAI, 74mm. TB and spacer, Catless test pipe.= 1/4 13.7
And change to give you an idea.

 

[QUOTE=DavidM,Mar 5 2008, 10:02 PM]If you engage VTEC in any of the first three gears, on the street, you are guilty of exhibition of speed.

That's not true. S2000 (F20c) at 6000rpm:
1. in the 1st gear is 46kph (ie. 28mph)
2. in 2nd gear is 72kph (ie. 45mph)
3. in 3rd gear is 96kph (ie. 60mph).

So you can stay well within the law in the the first 3 gears

 

It makes perfectly good sense to me.

DavidM wants you to race without that "fancy clutch work" though, so I don't think you are actually answering the question he's asking. He wants you to race from 1k or 2k RPM to 6k RPM, and use only the gas pedal, and in that situation, the MX5 and S2000 are pretty darn close. Because of the lower gearing (higher numerically), the S2000 appears to have a slight edge, but at best it's only a fraction of a second, and the difference in the rate at which two different drivers "stomp the gas pedal" is apt to be greater than the difference in acceleration between "just off idle" and 6k. What I don't understand, is why this would ever matter, becaue when you're driving ANY CAR and need more acceleration than you have available in the gear you are in, you either downshift, and get the power you need, or you slip the clutch and get the power you need. Why would ANYONE just nail the throttle at low revs and wait for power to arrive?

Am I the only one here who thinks this concept makes no sense at all?

Yes, TwinTurbo540, your comments make perfectly good sense to me, but as much as I'd like to be able to give DavidM whatever it is he's looking for, I'm now pretty well convinced that I must not understand the question.

Any time you want to pull an MX5 from a slow roll, all you have to do is a little footwork to get the revs up, and the MX5 is history. Of course if you pick an MX5 like Thunder, you're going to be in for a surprise, so if you hear supercharger whine from the MX5, all bets are off. A 200 WHP MX5 is substantially quicker than a stock, 200 WHP (more or less) S2000, even though the S2000 has more advantageous gearing. The MX5 is making the power at lower revs, so it's making lots more torque across the band, and it is lighter, so once the MX5 has a good FI system installed, it'll easily walk away from a stock S2000.

 

Well, I've pretty much given up now. Anyone else care to try?