RED MX5

To me, the S2000 suspension looks like a conventional wishbone system. The "in wheel" design may be unique to Honda, but it's basically the same unequal length wishbone setup we see all the time on all manner of cars. The wheel movement is determined by the suspension mounting points and the length of the various links. I'd go into more detail, but the guys who can answer my question will know what I'm talking about, and I'm trying to keep this short. Of course we all know that there are flexable bushings and that parts flex to complicate the issue, but in general the S2000 suspension seems very conventional and easy to understand, at least that's the way it seems to me. What I'm wondering is whether or not I'm overlooking anything. Is there some aspect of the S2000 suspension that throws us a loop when we try to understand how it works?

I thought I understood it, but a recent thread (which I just bumped) got me concerned that I might be missing something, and missing something leads to smack talking, and I'd rather avoid that as much as I possibly can. If I'm overlooking something, will somebody PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IT IS?

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Some clarification for those who need it. I realize that Honda did some unusual things to get the car to feel the way it did, including details like the steering wheel core and half shaft diameters, and I understand that tires and other factors are important, but isn't the basic suspension geometry itself totally conventional (including, but not limited to the roll understeer characteristics)?

LOL, I feel stupid even asking this, because I believe I already know the answer, but I want some independent verification from some of the people who know infinitely more than myself.

How-bout-it guys?

mikegarrison

No, nothing particularly unusual.

Dan H

Yeah, nothing unusual. The S2K is all about the overall package. Stiffer chassis that allows the suspension to do its job, low weight, 50/50 weight distribution with the engine behind the front axles, and good OEM tires.

SpitfireS

IMO, the "in wheel" design is there because of the high + offset wheels.
It's pretty hard to find aftermarket wheels with the exact same + offset in relation to wheel width.
Even Enkei doesn't make aftermarket wheels + offsets like they made the AP1 OEM's.
And no: I don't think 8.5" wide wheels with + 50 offset comes close to OEM.

RED MX5

Thanks Mike. You may think it odd, but there is nobody I'd rather have had respond to this.

I know it's probably a stupid question, but some people see some things (suspension design and passive crossover design come to mind) as a black art, and when I talk to people that see it that way it always makes me wonder if I'm missing something. LOL, I still see suspension *tuning* as an art, but it's certainly not some kind of black art.

RED MX5

Well SpitfireS, we're off topic, but my question has already been answered by someone I have enough faith in to be satisfied that the answer was correct, so we might as well drift off topic, and have a little fun.

I think the in-wheel design allows the wishbones to be longer for a given incursion into the interior space of the car. I mean, if you move the point where the arms attach at one end you have to move the point where they mount at the other end too, and that would take up useful interior space. Not much, granted, but I think Honda has a space effeciency mentality that is reflected in the design. However, I may have just been reading too much marketing hype.

Mike, what do you think? Is the in-wheel design for space effeciency, or is there something else afoot?

mikegarrison

Hah, you want black art? My entire career has been in combustion, then acoustics, and now combustion again (with some climatology mixed in). Now that's black art.

mikegarrison

Yeah, I think it's just a neat packaging solution.

SpitfireS

What I was trying to say is that the wheels and their geometry are part of the suspension.
Look at the engine bay, there is enough room to move the suspension a little more inward to get the control arm length, but Honda used high offset wheels.
Why?

IIRC you yourself mentioned once that by doing that the forces on the hub are in line with the hub's pivot points, (ball joints)

Look at F1 suspension, just a "basic" wishbone with high offset wheels.
The hub & brakes completely dissapear in the wheel.

RED MX5

My understanding of combustion is probably at a high school physics level, so I don't know enough about it for it to look like a black art. I know even less about climatology.

Acoustics I know a little about and there are areas that aren't well understood (at least not by me ), but it's not all black art.

Did you know that MugenRioS2k has a degree in acoustics?

LOL, did you know that I have an audio related patent pending?