you need to be a little more descriptive of the problem.....if it happens all the time then something is not right. does it only happen after coming out of reverse? does it only happen when the car is cold? does it only happen after you've decelerated from a stop? etc etc etc

 

OK well it happens inconsistently in almost every circumstance --

- when cold
- after decelerating to stop
- after idling for few moments

But it has not happened coming out of reverse. Audible and physical "clunk" when it does occur.

Thanks for the quick response!

Cheers,
Diane

 

If you're trying to put the car in first at a full stop, that might be part of the problem. Does it do this "every" time, or every once in a while?

I think you'll find that it will slide into 1st gear if you try to engage it with the car still slightly moving. Anything under 5 mph should work better.

Having said that, your S2000 is brand new. Everything in the engine and tranny are still tight and wearing in. Give it some time. My transmission limbered up significantly after about 7k miles of so.

Also, don't know if you're doing this or not but, don't "grip" the shift lever. Use your hand to push / nudge really, the shifter into each gear. This car does not like to be man-handled.

Best of luck and Congrat's on the new purchase!

Drive Safe,
Steve R.

 

9 years, but how many miles did you accmulate?

This is a no-no for many reasons. By slipping the clutch, the clutch has to to bring the engine speed UP to the transmission speed. This is burning away the material. Secondly, by doing this, you also disrupt the weight transfer -- if you were pushing it hard enough to be on 10/10ths of your tire's level of grip, this is a surefire way to spin out.

Rev-matching matches the engine speed - tranny speed all into one clean motion, and when released, mimimum burning of the clutch would happen.

If you think 9 years was good, imagine if you had rev-matching down -- your clutch could maybe last 18 years.

FWIW, when I replaced my Prelude engine, I bought a clutch to replace it. After 65k of autocrossing/track days/aggressive driving, I figured the clutch was about due. When I took it out, I was amazed to find that virtually no clutch material had worn off. I sent the new clutch back and saved myself some money.

In the end - rev-matching & H2T is a nicely needed skill to save your clutch.

For regular driving -- just don't ride the clutch at the engagement point. Keep away from that engagement point as much as possible and your clutch will thank you for it. Either all the way in, or all the way out.

 

So...to my understanding along with some questions:

1. always rev-match on downshifts; rev match by tapping gas, then shifting down one gear? it won't hurt the synchros to go down say 6-4, if i was at 4k rpm in six? i was hearing about how skipping gears on upshifts were bad and that it should always be linear at 1-2-3-4-5-6

2. Never coast in neutral

3. Only keep clutch down when shifting

4. Is it bad to hold the car in 1st w/clutch down at a redlight? Should I keep it in neutral?

5. At drive throughs and traffic jams, keep it in neutral then shift each time to move, or should I keep foot on clutch and ease it off as I slowly move?

6. When shifting with regular driving will it hurt the clutch a lot to apply gas at the very end of the transition (as clutch is released) to ensure a smoother shift, or should I just drop it which gives a CLUNK sound AND creates jerky motion throughout car

thanks!

 

About 130 000 miles.

As far as weight transfer goes, firstly it shouldn't be an issue as you should never shift in the middle of a turn...
Secondly, if anything feathering the clutch slowly lets you control how the car pitches quite precisely. If anything I would think that trying to rev match but not being right on the money would cause the car's weight to shift quite suddenly which seems a lot more dangerous to me.

And as evo just asked, what about red lights and heavy traffic? Am I to understand that you never ride the clutch in stop and go traffic? What about red lights on an incline? Do you never use the friction point rather than have the clutch all the way in and your foot on the brake?

And again, if it's so bad, how come I'm not burning through clutches like butter? I'd rather we try and see what else could be causing clutch wear so that we can help the original poster out rather than try to change my driving style.

Oh, in addition, I may have developed this bad habit when I lived in Canada. It was very effective for slowing a car down when approaching a corner a little too fast on snow(much more so that the brakes). I would hate to try and rev match and miss on snow, that would be a disaster.

 

I found working links for the videos here:
http://www.standardshift.com/videos.html

Unfortunately the sound on the "Agressive Launch" video isn't working for me... and the only reason I wanted to download these videos was to hear an M5 get on it!

 

Here's my take on your questions:

1. Generally, yes. Rev matching as best you can will only help the longevity of the clutch and drive train. Most folks around here usually discourage skipping gears while upshifting. Skipping gears while downshifting is perfectly normal under certain circumstances and depends on what you need the car to do. You can be cruising along at 45 mph in 6th gear and, for whatever reason, need a max effort acceleration. With my '04 model, I could go from 6th to 2nd at that speed and wind up right in the meat of my VTEC rpms. A healthy stab of the throttle while the clutch is disengaged will bring the engine up and over 6k which will be right where it'll need to be for such a downshift. The transmission synchros will probably handle it but it will put some stress on them. I could "double clutch," which will involve 1) depressing the clutch, 2) bring the transmission to neutral, 3) releasing the clutch and then doing that throttle stab to bring the rpms up to at least 6k with the clutch engaged and the tranny still in neutral, 4) depress the clutch again and shift into 2nd gear while all the tranny internals are still spun up. This will greatly reduce the stress on the synchros while making such a downshift. I can double clutch under certain circumstances but it's not something I do well on the spur of the moment. To work well, it has to happen fairly quickly and it takes practice. If I'm expecting the downshift, I generally do Ok most of the time. If it's an "oh sh**" situation, I don't generally try.

2. Correct!

3. If you're shifting, you definitely need to be using the clutch. It's actually possible to shift without using the clutch. A professional drive could do it without too much fan fare. Us "normal" drivers are probably better off not trying it!

4. No, it's not bad for the car. If you're simply sitting in traffic, waiting for the light to turn green, just keep it in gear with the clutch down. That way, you're ready to move when the light turns. Shifting into neutral at a red light or stop sign will save a little wear and tear on the throw-out bearing but that's all and it has the potential to leave you vulnerable if you should need to move in a hurry. Hitting the clutch and trying to find 1st gear can be problematic while watching the idiot in your mirror that's about to rear end you.

5. What I said under #4 above notwithstanding, if I'm waiting in line at a drive through (the bank, McDonald's, etc), I usually put it in neutral if it looks like the wait is going to be a while. But that's a different situation than actually doing it in traffic. I live south of Houston and have been in some pretty heavy traffic. Even at that, I've not been in a situation, yet, where I was sitting long enough to justify going to neutral.

6. If I'm understanding you correctly, you should be reapplying the gas as your foot is coming off the clutch peddle. Don't wait until your foot is fully off the clutch to step back down on the gas. Jerking the car around is going to have adverse effects on something, not to mention it's darned uncomfortable for you and any passenger you might have. Besides, if you time it right, the engine speed and tranny speed will be so close together when everything hooks up, there'll be virtually no slippage from the clutch. No slippage = no wear!

Drive Safe,
Steve R.

 

If you were in a straight line, under full braking, trying to slip the clutch in from a higher gear, and you don't slip it enough, this could momentarily lock up those rear tires when the rear end is light. That's a receipe for disaster. I'm guessing you have never been at 10/10ths of a tires limit - so maybe this is why you've never been spun. But then again, it's always a good idea to not be in at 10/10ths on the street anyways -- leave that to the track.

No, I never use the friction point to keep a car steady. I always use the brakes. All the way in, or all the way out. Keeping it at the friction point is bad -- why? because you're using the clutch to hold the car in motion, however the clutch is spinning against the flywheel. How is this not burning off the material?

I'm sure your Celica may have been beefier then most clutches, thus the longer durability.

General rule of thumb tho, this is bad driving technique. Not trying to be offensive, just what I've learned (and have seen from 6yrs working at a shop while going to school.)

 

Agreed. I'm not trying to be overly argumentative. I understand how a car's clutch works and realise that slipping it should indeed be wearing it... This just hasn't been my pesronnal experience.

I have been at 10/10 quite a bit as I used to do some amateur ice racing up in Canada and 10/10ths comes quite quickly on snow when you don't have studded tires. On the flip side, that was in a front wheel drive car...

To elaborate a bit further though, I start slipping the clutch at almost the same moment I begin braking so it's pretty unlikely that I would lock up the rears.

I guess I need to practice heal toeing (ball edging in my case, my feet are to big to heal toe in the S). I just never liked it, I feel like I'm giving up to much control over the car.

Let me ask you this, how do you engine brake effectively without slipping the clutch? If I rev match I get very little engine braking.