[QUOTE=Elistan,Sep 16 2004, 10:19 PM] Hehe.

 

i know what your saying, it will drop below 6k if you do it that way, but who is going to redline it and shift "gently". Shift quick and I don't see it drop below the 6k mark on mine, and no i do not power shift. Either way Pilot is right because the vtec does stay engaged even if it did fall 2-300 below 6k. Hasn't dropped below 6k when I shift yet.

 

No regrets! I my MY04!

If you have any specific questions...PM me!

 

Some of the things I'm growing tired of are the buckering from a stop and the power gap after 4-4500RPM... But I am assuming these things come along with owning a toy race car. You can press the accelerator to the floor and it only means fuel consumption and noise. What I adore is what comes after that though... Whahh!!!!!! On the AP1 the top end is what it's all about... On the AP2, the top end seems to just be icing on the cake...

Arghh. I need to decide tonight... I'm closing on my house near the end of the month so the Berlina would be my first "garage queen". Whoever bought my Sebring/red would be delighted! It's only seen Amoco clear 93 and Mobil SSyn. It also has the 04' wheel/tire upgrade... Who would be so lucky? hehe... I will take the AEM v2 off for sale though. I wish it was compatible wit the 04, I could break it in with a CAI.

 

Here's the deal with shifting... You can check my math if you want, all you need are the gearing specs out of any S2000 brochure for the respective model years you're interested in. I put it all in an Excel spreadsheet a couple months ago when this was a hot topic.

Making the (incorrect yet reasonable for this purpose) assumption that you loose no speed during shifting, if you shift at redline in 1st gear (9k in pre04 and 8k in 04) you will theorectically land at 5875 rpm and 5222 rpm in a pre04 and 04, respectively. There is no need to calculate vehical speed. All you need to do is calculate wheel speed in rpm and then back calculate the engine speed (Actually all you need to do is ratio the engine speed using the gear ratios, but the other way makes more sense to more people.).

Here's the thing. Those numbers are theoretical. There is some acceleration in the next gear (2nd) before the clutch fully engages (while there is slippage) which suggests the opportunity for the engine to never drop below 6k rpm during a 1st to 2nd upshift. Additionally, I've not seen a definitive answer on this board as to the logic behind dropping out of VTEC. Some have suggested that dropping below 6k does not necessarily mean dropping out of VTEC.

Regardless, I'd say a thorough test drive would be in order. Just thought I'd add as this was a topic being discussed. During my extensive test drive in an 04 I tried to pay attention, but I was having so much fun I really can't answer to whether it drops out of VTEC or not in early shifts.


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On a second note. I for one have been a fan of the S2000 since before in hit the streets. Being fairly young I've placed other priorities ahead of purchasing a $30k+ car (house, savings, etc.). As I was highly dissappointed to see that there were going to be major changes to the S2000 for 04, I put a deposit down on one of the few remaining 03s (still before I felt financially prepared). After some thought, I determined that I should wait (for many reasons, but mostly because I figured I could actually like the changes). So I waited. While there are things that I like about each car, the fact is they are not much different, especially when comparing with other cars in the same class as the S2000.

I've test driven both cars on several occasions. And in short, I'm happy I waited. I'm not insinuating that I think the 04 is a better car. I AM saying that I like the newer car better. While there are some differences, I think the car is just as capable performance wise, while adding some "refinements" that are nice without taking away from the true sport that was intended for the car. (And no, I DON'T give a damn about the second cup holder. Although, it makes great storage area. But who really cares anyway.)

Having said that, and having experienced the differences between the cars, I will say that people who have owned the pre04 for the most part make up the population that dislikes the changes to the 04. It is my belief that they view the changes as negative simply because they are so used to the car they've owned. During a test drive, the rather small improvements in low end power and rear end grip are overshadowed by the slower steering and lower redline that only those that have driven pre04s as extensively as an owner feel are limitations. I feel that if I had owned a pre04, I'd feel the same way. HOWEVER, having driven the 04 again just a week ago (and being a demo with 4k miles I was able to drive it hard) the fact is the 04 is every bit the sports car the pre04s are (IMO).

In short, I can't wait to pick up my 05 in just a few more months.

(Sorry for the long post... I figured I'd give an owner-2-B's perspective on the two.)

 

You will really enjoy the 05'!!! It has 2.4L SOHC with 7500RPM rev limit and 175lbs/ft...

Seriously speaking, I am beginning to back down based on the all Black interior.... I really love the all Red, it feels sooooo much more sporty. Then there is the rarity to consider. There is no other H-car which has this feature. My second 5th gen prelude was Blck/Blck and it got somewhat boring at times. Always sheek, but never thrilling... Hohum...

They sold there only used S last week so I will not get 2 beat on one before delivery. Poor me.

 

Indeed. Here's how this works. The '04 cars have a "cluth delay valve" in the clutch cyliner that slows down clutch engagement. So when you shift from 1st to 2nd really quickly, the car slips the clutch for you. By the time it's fully engage, you're somwhere around 6500rpm. So in that sense, no, it doesn't necesarily drop out of VTEC when shifting. However, that's only if you essentially dump the clutch between shifts. It's... well, I guess it's to protect the driveline components some, but that amount of slippage just makes me cringe every single time. Shifting hard from 2nd to 3rd, and especially 3rd to 4th at redline - it's horrible. It takes so long before the clutch engages. Based on what some others say, I'm thinking there might actually be an issue with my specific clutch. I don't notice any slippage during any other time, though. A future mod might include an 00-03 clutch cylinder to get rid of the delay.

One to the second aspect - VTEC engagement below 6000rpm. All I can say is that I personally have never experienced this in any S2000, regardless of it's year. Track events, auto-x, street driving, doesn't matter. When I shift the '04 and it drops below 6000 before full clutch engagement, I can definitely feel the kick at 6000 as the high cam is engaged. Every time. *shrug*

[QUOTE]Having said that, and having experienced the differences between the cars, I will say that people who have owned the pre04 for the most part make up the population that dislikes the changes to the 04.

 

Ok Guys.... In about ten hours I will be test driving a sort-of demo, it has about 50 miles on it. Three things I will be looking for..

1. Clutch Engagement
2. Steering Ratio and feel
3. Redline shifts (once or twice won't hurt it...ho hum) Looking for VTEC engagement, and VTEC "hang-out" time.

Elis that Type-R statement really shot me down... I've always called the 00-01 type-R's because they were the firmest ever... My 02 felt softer and easier to manage in comparison... Damn it.. Will I go even further away from the R feel? We shall see.

You guys have been awesome, this thread never went into versus tailspin-Thanks!

 

my08 > all

 

Funny you mention my08'... I am really hoping the Prelude returns as an SH-AWD for 07 or 08. I WILL be the one of the first in line... Hence the name "Ludegar"... I nub me some Prelude. I would have gone with a Prelude for a beater but I need at least a sedan on hand for larger loads...