skipping though gears?
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From: Queen City, NC
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From: socal
What a pile of twaddle.
Will some of you gentlemen please tell me where the computer chip that tells your S engine & gearbox just which gear it was in last is found. It doesn't know, & I promise I won't tell it.
As the OP said, it is of no interest, & has no effect what gear the thing was last in, provided you match revs & road speed for the gear you wish to engage, your car will never know the difference. Going from 3Rd to 6Th at 60 MPH after an overtaking maneuver does mean you will have to pause in neutral for a short period as the revs drop, not a problem really.
For you kids, not lucky enough to have driven the original S600 with it's 11,000 rev limit, try it if ever you get the chance, they are brilliant. However you damn near need a cut lunch while you wait for the revs to drop, if you rev it out through the gears.
I raced F1, & F2S for some years. I held many lap records. In those days of proper gearboxes in racing cars, I & all the really competitive drivers did what you call skip shifts when going down. You can not brake with maximum efficiency when mucking about with all that fancy heel & toe stuff. You brake to the speed where you can engage the gear you want for the corner coming up without over revving, then select it with one quick rev matched change.
This was of course in gear boxes with dog engagement, no synchros to help. You got the revs perfect, or you did not get any gear, just a loud noise.
I have done a couple of races with no clutch at all. The operating system had failed in both races, one of which I won, it failed at the start. I did not even know the clutch had failed, until I attempted to stop, with the car still in gear at the end of the race. In both instances no damage could be detected when the boxes were stripped. Get your revs right & the clutch is as superfluous as rowing through gears. It is only essential when you want to stop in gear, or start.
If you can drive, skip change to your hearts content, if you can't row the gears, or buy an auto.
I can't believe that some people, having accelerated to the legal speed in second or third, then wear out the clutch, gear linkage pivots going from gear to gear, until they finally reach 6Th. Still if that is what floats your boat, go for it, it is after all, your car to do with as you chose.
Better still, stop meditating on your navel, & just go enjoy your car.
Will some of you gentlemen please tell me where the computer chip that tells your S engine & gearbox just which gear it was in last is found. It doesn't know, & I promise I won't tell it.
As the OP said, it is of no interest, & has no effect what gear the thing was last in, provided you match revs & road speed for the gear you wish to engage, your car will never know the difference. Going from 3Rd to 6Th at 60 MPH after an overtaking maneuver does mean you will have to pause in neutral for a short period as the revs drop, not a problem really.
For you kids, not lucky enough to have driven the original S600 with it's 11,000 rev limit, try it if ever you get the chance, they are brilliant. However you damn near need a cut lunch while you wait for the revs to drop, if you rev it out through the gears.
I raced F1, & F2S for some years. I held many lap records. In those days of proper gearboxes in racing cars, I & all the really competitive drivers did what you call skip shifts when going down. You can not brake with maximum efficiency when mucking about with all that fancy heel & toe stuff. You brake to the speed where you can engage the gear you want for the corner coming up without over revving, then select it with one quick rev matched change.
This was of course in gear boxes with dog engagement, no synchros to help. You got the revs perfect, or you did not get any gear, just a loud noise.
I have done a couple of races with no clutch at all. The operating system had failed in both races, one of which I won, it failed at the start. I did not even know the clutch had failed, until I attempted to stop, with the car still in gear at the end of the race. In both instances no damage could be detected when the boxes were stripped. Get your revs right & the clutch is as superfluous as rowing through gears. It is only essential when you want to stop in gear, or start.
If you can drive, skip change to your hearts content, if you can't row the gears, or buy an auto.
I can't believe that some people, having accelerated to the legal speed in second or third, then wear out the clutch, gear linkage pivots going from gear to gear, until they finally reach 6Th. Still if that is what floats your boat, go for it, it is after all, your car to do with as you chose.
Better still, stop meditating on your navel, & just go enjoy your car.
I need to ask, did you even bother to read anything about this issue? not just my post but things from the honda "gurus" that tore about these transmissions to find worn out synchros? because if you didn't maybe it will help clarify exactly what the problem is and what we are discussing.
You provided no evidence and quite frankly, I can't think of anything more POLAR opposite to what we're discussing here.
The issue (if you haven't read the other threads) is that people who work and specialize in honda s2000 transmissions have found that the transmissions have been coming back with synchro wear due to people skipping directly to that gear often. RACING has nothing to do with it, and racing is the opposite of what we're talking about, which is longevity and reliability over hundreds of thousands of miles. To point our your example, just because you can beat on a car racing doesn't mean it will last over 300k miles and I would imagine race cars aren't built with longevity in mind to begin with so I don't see how that example pertains to this issue.
You're mentioning rev matching but that has already been mentioned that rev matches and the clutch is not the issue. You can and should rev match and it will go into gear but without having to repeat myself and all the other countless threads, it has to do with putting unnecessary load on the synchros. No it will not cause a grind or cause a synchro to blow up but it has been shown that it wears significantly more over time, driven every day.
And you're also misunderstanding the last part. People are not getting up to speed in 2nd/3rd and then engaging/disengaging EACH time on the way to 4,5,6. People are going up 2nd and 3rd, pushing in the clutch, rowing through the gears 4>5>6 (CONTINUALLY with the clutch depressed the entire time) so that the gears and synchros work their way up to 6) and then releasing at 6th gear. It is also said double shifting works.
It has nothing to do with the computer in the car knowing what gear it is, or the clutch, or rev matching. The car will know what gear its in and it will go into that gear just fine. but based on the evidence shown by people who actually tear into this particular car's transmission over and over, and what HONDA says you should do, it will not last over time if you continually skip wide ranges of gears (up or down) and drive it like an F1 race car.
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 305
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From: South East Queensland Oz.
Oh please superstuddc27, have you really thought what you are saying.
The only possible reason for holding the clutch down & rowing through the gears is to allow time for engine revs to drop. This will protect the synchros to some extent from the hopeless driver, who would rip from 3Rd to 6Th with out allowing the engine revs to drop. Such changes would of course put high loads on synchros. However it would involve sticking the thing into many gears with just idle revs. This is just as likely to wear synchros, but on the other side.
Obviously some Honda technicians have promoted this rubbish to stop ham fisted people, who should never be let loose with anything that revs much over 4,000 RPM, from said rip changing into 6Th with 8,000+ RPM on the thing.
If you can't understand this, there is no hope of educating you, so I'll leave you with your fantasy.
The only possible reason for holding the clutch down & rowing through the gears is to allow time for engine revs to drop. This will protect the synchros to some extent from the hopeless driver, who would rip from 3Rd to 6Th with out allowing the engine revs to drop. Such changes would of course put high loads on synchros. However it would involve sticking the thing into many gears with just idle revs. This is just as likely to wear synchros, but on the other side.
Obviously some Honda technicians have promoted this rubbish to stop ham fisted people, who should never be let loose with anything that revs much over 4,000 RPM, from said rip changing into 6Th with 8,000+ RPM on the thing.
If you can't understand this, there is no hope of educating you, so I'll leave you with your fantasy.
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Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Queen City, NC
Originally Posted by xviper' timestamp='1370647077' post='22594371
This first picture shows a "normal" syncro. Note the pointy ends to those metal strips .................
This next picture shows a damaged syncro from improper skip shifting. Note the points have all been shaved off and are flattened ................
This next picture shows a damaged syncro from improper skip shifting. Note the points have all been shaved off and are flattened ................
Actually, all we really know is that one synchro is damaged and one is not. We don't actually know how the damaged synchro was worn out - its just anecdotal. Someone who doesn't shift properly will wear down the synchros regardless if they skip shift or not.
I think all anyone really has to know is that syncromesh is designed to drag two parts rotating at different speeds into synch. If you use the gears in order, the speed differential is low, and thus wear is lower. If you skip shift, the speed differential is higher, and synchro wear is higher. The wear can be offset with engine rpm and rev matching to a degree - synchromesh is all about removing the necessity of rev matching - you can be close and still get a smooth shift.
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From: socal
Oh please superstuddc27, have you really thought what you are saying.
The only possible reason for holding the clutch down & rowing through the gears is to allow time for engine revs to drop. This will protect the synchros to some extent from the hopeless driver, who would rip from 3Rd to 6Th with out allowing the engine revs to drop. Such changes would of course put high loads on synchros. However it would involve sticking the thing into many gears with just idle revs. This is just as likely to wear synchros, but on the other side.
Obviously some Honda technicians have promoted this rubbish to stop ham fisted people, who should never be let loose with anything that revs much over 4,000 RPM, from said rip changing into 6Th with 8,000+ RPM on the thing.
If you can't understand this, there is no hope of educating you, so I'll leave you with your fantasy.
The only possible reason for holding the clutch down & rowing through the gears is to allow time for engine revs to drop. This will protect the synchros to some extent from the hopeless driver, who would rip from 3Rd to 6Th with out allowing the engine revs to drop. Such changes would of course put high loads on synchros. However it would involve sticking the thing into many gears with just idle revs. This is just as likely to wear synchros, but on the other side.
Obviously some Honda technicians have promoted this rubbish to stop ham fisted people, who should never be let loose with anything that revs much over 4,000 RPM, from said rip changing into 6Th with 8,000+ RPM on the thing.
If you can't understand this, there is no hope of educating you, so I'll leave you with your fantasy.
At the end of the day, there will be some controversy regarding this because some people refuse to believe that because they've been skip shifting ok "their entire life" that it will be ok for others. Unfortunately you present no actual evidence for your claim.
Did you read the Honda statement on this issue and what user Woodwork has stated regarding skip shifting? I will copy and paste it below as an excerpt.
To sum it up in case it's too long of a read (please read it), the conclusion is that you CAN skip shift at low speeds. But it does have the potential to wreck your synchros because the engine slows down faster than the middle part of the transmission which is completely disengaged. So your mention of rev matching is kind of moot, rev matching is for the engine. It does help but we're talking about the delay it takes for the transmission to slow down when it brought up to 9000 RPM and put into a limbo state where it is spinning freely. It will slow down eventually, question is how long it will take. And the answer is, the more aggressive you drive, the harder it is on your synchros. Simple.
Numerous people including billman and other people recommend against it. I'm not a mechanic and I really have no dog in this fight. I don't get additional business if somehow this information is believed to be true by everyone else. Frankly I'd prefer if skip shifting was ok because it's quite annoying to have to row through the gears with the clutch depressed. Would be nice to go 1-2-6 from every red light here in LA during rush hour but I refrain.
Cheers
Gentlemen (Gernby and Froth),
I found a couple things:
1) SKIP SHIFTING IS BRUTAL ON SYNCHRONIZERS
HONDA SERVICE NEWS
Reference Number(s): HSN0106-01, Date of Issue: January 1, 2006
SERVICE INFORMATION
Gear ratios in 6-speed manual trannies are spaced close together so you can keep the engine speed in its optimum range for max power and acceleration. Shifting to the next higher or lower gear in a close-ratio tranny causes small changes in engine speed. Shifting a close-ratio tranny through its gears by the numbers puts a very small load on the synchronizers since they only have to make small changes to the speed of the mainshaft and the clutch disc.
Some drivers, though, like to skip shift so they don’t have to work the clutch pedal and shift lever as much. They like to accelerate in 1st gear, then pop it into 3rd gear, then into 5th or 6th. Skip shifting, though, is really brutal on synchronizers; it puts a higher demand on them than they were designed to take. Skip shifting can cause premature synchronizer wear that can cause the gears to grind when you shift up or down.
If you’ve got a vehicle in your shop for repeated damage to the synchronizers, go for a test-drive with your service customer to see if he or she is guilty of skip shifting. If that’s the case, remind him or her skip shifting can be an expensive habit to break. Any repairs due to skip shifting may be reviewed and debited by your DPSM."
For more, see this S2KI link: https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/717...th-after-woot/
2) MORE INFORMATION FROM A HONDA SERVICE ENGINEER
"I am the woodwork and I work for American Honda.. I am writing this to hopefully help S2000 owner/drivers understand the importance of shifting properly to minimize the damage to 2nd gear synchronizer rings. I'm not the Warranty Police but will from time to time quote warranty policy when I read things like "Shifting without the clutch".
My overall objective being in the woodwork is to keep S2000 owners from hurting themselves and hurting their cars. Everytime a transmission or engine gets replaced in an S2000 I get the part. I've seen a lot of damaged transmissions.
You have an engine that revs to 9000 RPM. That means that the transmission mainshaft and clutch disk are also revving to 9000 RPM. When you disengage the clutch (push in the pedal) to shift from first to second the engine and the transmission are disconnected. The engine will slow down from compression when you lift off the throttle. The mainshaft of the transmission is not connected to the engine any more so it is freewheeling in the transmission. Given enough time the mainshaft will slow down but not as fast as the engine. The countershaft is connected to the rear wheels and the speed stays constant during the shift.
When you shift into 2nd gear the synchronizer of the 2nd gear must SLOW DOWN the transmission mainshaft to match the speed that the engine WILL be going when the shift is completed and the clutch is engaged.
The transmission mainshaft and the clutch disk together weigh 19.75 lbs. (not including the pressure plate and flywheel that are connected to the engine) When you shift from 1st to 2nd at 9000 RPM the engine speed drops to 5900. That means that the little brass synchronizer rings have to push on the 2nd gear to slow the mainshaft from 9000RPM to 5900 RPM. It not only has to slow down the mainshaft it has to do it in the time that it takes you to shift. So if you have a tendency to shift fast you may be making the sleeve blow past the synchro rings before it has a chance to do it's job and it will smash into the 2nd gear.
The early '00 cars needed a little change to the sleeve to make the synchros work a little harder. That is what the new parts in the service bulletin are for. Cars after VIN YT006255 already have the new parts. Grinding in a car produced later than 6255 is possible if the synchros have been damaged and now are not able to slow down the mainshaft properly.
Shifting without the clutch, or, shift too quickly and not letting the synchros do their job may permanently damage the gear, sleeve and synchros and make the 2nd gear grind more often.
It makes sense that if shifting at 6000 makes the engine speed drop to 4300 RPM, (1700) into 2nd gear then you should give the 2nd gear synchro twice the time to do the shift from 9000 RPM.
If your car does grind once in a while you may not want the transmission removed, disassembled and a new 2nd gear put in. If it does it quite often, show it to the dealer and have it replaced.
If you hesitate for another 1/2 second while putting constant pressure on the shifter while the 2nd gear synchro does it's job, I'll bet many of your cars would not grind any more. Try it. You might like it.
Added 5-2-03:
Skipping gears:
I have seen many 6th gear sleeves that have been damaged.
The typical story is this: Stop light, 1st gear, engage the clutch, rev to 9,000 RPM, shift quickly to 2nd, rev to 9,000 RPM, same into 3rd, look down and find the car going 80 MPH on a city street and the engine noise is screaming, recognize that any cop is going to write a ticket. Shift to 6th quickly to lower engine noise.
Dragging the mainshaft speed down from 9,000 RPM to 4,000 when going from 3rd to 6th takes time. 6th gear has only a single synchro ring and it doesn't like it. It will grind if you are shifting hard and fast. By shifting hard the synchro ring does not have time to slow down the main-shaft and the sleeve will slip over the synchro and grind the gear. If the sleeve is ground enough in 6th then it will not slide the other way to engage 5th.
So if it is hard to get your car into 5th or 6th it may be because the sleeve is being damaged by skipping gears. Hope this makes sense.
For more, see this link: http://www.standardshift.com/forum/v...hp?f=6&t=13489
MY ASSESSMENT
For what it is worth, there is risk to synchronizers when skip shifting. However, this risk increases with aggressive driving and should be lessened, if not eliminated, at lower RPM. Apparently, skip shifting hard and fast at wide open throttle will damage synchronizers, but skip shifting at lower RPM and giving components sufficient time to slow down could have no ill effect. As a result, I believe the potential harm that could be caused by skip shifting is largely a function of how aggressively the driver is revving the engine and slamming the shifter into gear.
I'm open to counterpoints.
NOTE: "Woodwork" post updated to better reflect original, and that original post linked here:
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/196...gear-synchros/
I found a couple things:
1) SKIP SHIFTING IS BRUTAL ON SYNCHRONIZERS
HONDA SERVICE NEWS
Reference Number(s): HSN0106-01, Date of Issue: January 1, 2006
SERVICE INFORMATION
Gear ratios in 6-speed manual trannies are spaced close together so you can keep the engine speed in its optimum range for max power and acceleration. Shifting to the next higher or lower gear in a close-ratio tranny causes small changes in engine speed. Shifting a close-ratio tranny through its gears by the numbers puts a very small load on the synchronizers since they only have to make small changes to the speed of the mainshaft and the clutch disc.
Some drivers, though, like to skip shift so they don’t have to work the clutch pedal and shift lever as much. They like to accelerate in 1st gear, then pop it into 3rd gear, then into 5th or 6th. Skip shifting, though, is really brutal on synchronizers; it puts a higher demand on them than they were designed to take. Skip shifting can cause premature synchronizer wear that can cause the gears to grind when you shift up or down.
If you’ve got a vehicle in your shop for repeated damage to the synchronizers, go for a test-drive with your service customer to see if he or she is guilty of skip shifting. If that’s the case, remind him or her skip shifting can be an expensive habit to break. Any repairs due to skip shifting may be reviewed and debited by your DPSM."
For more, see this S2KI link: https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/717...th-after-woot/
2) MORE INFORMATION FROM A HONDA SERVICE ENGINEER
"I am the woodwork and I work for American Honda.. I am writing this to hopefully help S2000 owner/drivers understand the importance of shifting properly to minimize the damage to 2nd gear synchronizer rings. I'm not the Warranty Police but will from time to time quote warranty policy when I read things like "Shifting without the clutch".
My overall objective being in the woodwork is to keep S2000 owners from hurting themselves and hurting their cars. Everytime a transmission or engine gets replaced in an S2000 I get the part. I've seen a lot of damaged transmissions.
You have an engine that revs to 9000 RPM. That means that the transmission mainshaft and clutch disk are also revving to 9000 RPM. When you disengage the clutch (push in the pedal) to shift from first to second the engine and the transmission are disconnected. The engine will slow down from compression when you lift off the throttle. The mainshaft of the transmission is not connected to the engine any more so it is freewheeling in the transmission. Given enough time the mainshaft will slow down but not as fast as the engine. The countershaft is connected to the rear wheels and the speed stays constant during the shift.
When you shift into 2nd gear the synchronizer of the 2nd gear must SLOW DOWN the transmission mainshaft to match the speed that the engine WILL be going when the shift is completed and the clutch is engaged.
The transmission mainshaft and the clutch disk together weigh 19.75 lbs. (not including the pressure plate and flywheel that are connected to the engine) When you shift from 1st to 2nd at 9000 RPM the engine speed drops to 5900. That means that the little brass synchronizer rings have to push on the 2nd gear to slow the mainshaft from 9000RPM to 5900 RPM. It not only has to slow down the mainshaft it has to do it in the time that it takes you to shift. So if you have a tendency to shift fast you may be making the sleeve blow past the synchro rings before it has a chance to do it's job and it will smash into the 2nd gear.
The early '00 cars needed a little change to the sleeve to make the synchros work a little harder. That is what the new parts in the service bulletin are for. Cars after VIN YT006255 already have the new parts. Grinding in a car produced later than 6255 is possible if the synchros have been damaged and now are not able to slow down the mainshaft properly.
Shifting without the clutch, or, shift too quickly and not letting the synchros do their job may permanently damage the gear, sleeve and synchros and make the 2nd gear grind more often.
It makes sense that if shifting at 6000 makes the engine speed drop to 4300 RPM, (1700) into 2nd gear then you should give the 2nd gear synchro twice the time to do the shift from 9000 RPM.
If your car does grind once in a while you may not want the transmission removed, disassembled and a new 2nd gear put in. If it does it quite often, show it to the dealer and have it replaced.
If you hesitate for another 1/2 second while putting constant pressure on the shifter while the 2nd gear synchro does it's job, I'll bet many of your cars would not grind any more. Try it. You might like it.
Added 5-2-03:
Skipping gears:
I have seen many 6th gear sleeves that have been damaged.
The typical story is this: Stop light, 1st gear, engage the clutch, rev to 9,000 RPM, shift quickly to 2nd, rev to 9,000 RPM, same into 3rd, look down and find the car going 80 MPH on a city street and the engine noise is screaming, recognize that any cop is going to write a ticket. Shift to 6th quickly to lower engine noise.
Dragging the mainshaft speed down from 9,000 RPM to 4,000 when going from 3rd to 6th takes time. 6th gear has only a single synchro ring and it doesn't like it. It will grind if you are shifting hard and fast. By shifting hard the synchro ring does not have time to slow down the main-shaft and the sleeve will slip over the synchro and grind the gear. If the sleeve is ground enough in 6th then it will not slide the other way to engage 5th.
So if it is hard to get your car into 5th or 6th it may be because the sleeve is being damaged by skipping gears. Hope this makes sense.
For more, see this link: http://www.standardshift.com/forum/v...hp?f=6&t=13489
MY ASSESSMENT
For what it is worth, there is risk to synchronizers when skip shifting. However, this risk increases with aggressive driving and should be lessened, if not eliminated, at lower RPM. Apparently, skip shifting hard and fast at wide open throttle will damage synchronizers, but skip shifting at lower RPM and giving components sufficient time to slow down could have no ill effect. As a result, I believe the potential harm that could be caused by skip shifting is largely a function of how aggressively the driver is revving the engine and slamming the shifter into gear.
I'm open to counterpoints.
NOTE: "Woodwork" post updated to better reflect original, and that original post linked here:
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/196...gear-synchros/
Sources if you care to delve deeper:
Woodwork's thread on the matter https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/196...gear-synchros/
http://www.standardshift.com/forum/v...hp?f=6&t=13489
https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/102...ifting-is-bad/
Originally Posted by spets' timestamp='1370633808' post='22593885
Moving the shifter through the gears engages the syncros and slows down the input shaft. Lets say you're at 7,000 rpm in 1st gear and want to shift.
If you're skipping 2nd and going straight for 3rd, that 3rd gear syncro has to slow down the shaft from 7,000 rpm to 3,250 rpm in a short amount of time.
If you move the shifter through the gear, the 2nd gear syncro is going to do some work to slow down the shaft from 7,000 to 4,500 first, then the 3rd gear syncro only has to slow it down from 4,500 to 3,250.
So: not moving through the gears = 3rd gear syncro has to deal with a speed delta of 3,750 rpm.
Moving through the gears: 3rd gear syncro has to deal with a speed delta of 1,250 rpm.
What is going to be easier on the syncro?
If you're skipping 2nd and going straight for 3rd, that 3rd gear syncro has to slow down the shaft from 7,000 rpm to 3,250 rpm in a short amount of time.
If you move the shifter through the gear, the 2nd gear syncro is going to do some work to slow down the shaft from 7,000 to 4,500 first, then the 3rd gear syncro only has to slow it down from 4,500 to 3,250.
So: not moving through the gears = 3rd gear syncro has to deal with a speed delta of 3,750 rpm.
Moving through the gears: 3rd gear syncro has to deal with a speed delta of 1,250 rpm.
What is going to be easier on the syncro?
Another thread again that ended up being locked for the same thing the OP posted https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/430...l/page__st__50
https://www.s2ki.com/home/2014/09/22...ifting-is-bad/
Why Double clutching is effective and works in matching input and output speed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_...28technique%29
Skip shift ruining someone's 5th gear http://s2000.com/forums/engine-tech-...yone-help.html
http://s2000.com/forums/engine-tech-...ear-issue.html
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 609
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From: Indianapolis, IN
For example, I start out in first and go up to 30mph, into 2nd up to 50 mph, if I only need to be going 55 mph, I'm done with gears to get me to speed, I only need 6th, so why go through 3rd, 4th and 5th? I can't use them to accelerate.
I used to do this with a '94 Vtec del so I had for the same reasons, and, of course, Honda said you shouldn't skip gears with it either. I had 160,000+ miles on it before someone hit me and slammed me into the curb, totaling the car.
But, when I got this wonderful machine (04 with 9k miles 4.5 yrs. ago), and read about how it wasn't good for the synchros, even though, in my wisdom, it didn't seem like it was hurting anything, I now row through the gears like a good boy, doing what I'm told by "gear-heads" who know more than I do about transmissions.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 74,594
Likes: 7
From: Pensacola
Anyone have the accompanying photos that go with the synchronizer photos?
Syncro wear is only part of the story.
They show the peaning action on the gears that occurs when skipping 5th, from 4th directly to 6th.
Eventually locking out 6th gear...
Syncro wear is only part of the story.
They show the peaning action on the gears that occurs when skipping 5th, from 4th directly to 6th.
Eventually locking out 6th gear...
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 305
Likes: 51
From: South East Queensland Oz.
I only raced in Oz arsenal, But I raced F2 for a few years before being given an F1 drive in a Brabham Repco. This was a sister car to the one Jack Brabham won his second world championship with.
I am also a mechanical engineer. A mate & I actually built the engine I used in my F2 Brabham. This was very similar to the Cosworth F2 Ford twin cam engines richer folk could buy.
We were pretty good at it, my F2 Brabham won outright or it's class in F1 races where they used us to fill the grid at places like Bathurst, for a 20 month period. I set an F2 lap record at Bathurst that was never beaten.
I also did all the work on my Hewland gearboxes. These had all individual gears, with the whole assembly sliding out the back of the box so you could set the car up with the right gear ratio for each corner. It would usually take 2 or 3 goes to chose the best mix of gear ratios for each gear at a different circuit during practice. It is fair to say I have spent quite a bit of time burning my fingers, [the gears got quite hot], changing individual gears in the box during practice.
I really couldn't count the number of times I have had a Hewland gearbox apart to change individual gears, so I do have a little idea of how a gearbox works.
Incidentally, the box in our cars is much better designed that the racing boxes were back then, but perhaps not quite as tough. I always treat mine quite gently, much more gently, despite my skip changing, than is necessary for such a well built bit of kit.
I am also a mechanical engineer. A mate & I actually built the engine I used in my F2 Brabham. This was very similar to the Cosworth F2 Ford twin cam engines richer folk could buy.
We were pretty good at it, my F2 Brabham won outright or it's class in F1 races where they used us to fill the grid at places like Bathurst, for a 20 month period. I set an F2 lap record at Bathurst that was never beaten.
I also did all the work on my Hewland gearboxes. These had all individual gears, with the whole assembly sliding out the back of the box so you could set the car up with the right gear ratio for each corner. It would usually take 2 or 3 goes to chose the best mix of gear ratios for each gear at a different circuit during practice. It is fair to say I have spent quite a bit of time burning my fingers, [the gears got quite hot], changing individual gears in the box during practice.
I really couldn't count the number of times I have had a Hewland gearbox apart to change individual gears, so I do have a little idea of how a gearbox works.
Incidentally, the box in our cars is much better designed that the racing boxes were back then, but perhaps not quite as tough. I always treat mine quite gently, much more gently, despite my skip changing, than is necessary for such a well built bit of kit.