So How Much Did Honda Leave On The Table?
10-17-2000, 12:18 PM
#21
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Lisbon
Posts: 1,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bieg:
[B]One should also keep in mind that engine tuners are not necessarily always looking for the highes PEAK HP number but rather highest HP through the broadest range.
[B]One should also keep in mind that engine tuners are not necessarily always looking for the highes PEAK HP number but rather highest HP through the broadest range.
10-17-2000, 06:53 PM
#22
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Defiance
Posts: 607
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Barringing differences in losses, HP is the same in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th. Ah! yes, and in reverse. "
Actually there will be a differance in horsepower output between the higher gears and lower gears. I have seen it during the dyno runs for my racebike. Lower gears made a little bit more power then the higher gears. This is the reasoning behind it, as it was explained to me.
"The exhaust system has a specific
volume of space. In the lower gears the engine "fills" the exhaust system then starts to use it's capacity. When you
shift, it empties the exhaust somewhat and the process starts over again. When you reach a gear that's long enough (timewise) to "overload" the exhaust systems capacity, you will have a slight reduction in power."
As far as improving the engine is concerned, we have only seen people make simple bolt on modifications. This seems to be the Hotroding style these days.
I would like to know what kind of power a big vtec cam would make. If anyone can find some adjustable cam sprockets maybe we could experiment with cam timing too. Flow test and port the head? Larger/better valves? Lot's of stuff we can do to the engine!
By the way, a Honda 750 Superbike makes about 40hp (that's alot in the bike world) more then the 750 streetbike it's based on.
Speed is just a question of money..how fast do you want to go?
Actually there will be a differance in horsepower output between the higher gears and lower gears. I have seen it during the dyno runs for my racebike. Lower gears made a little bit more power then the higher gears. This is the reasoning behind it, as it was explained to me.
"The exhaust system has a specific
volume of space. In the lower gears the engine "fills" the exhaust system then starts to use it's capacity. When you
shift, it empties the exhaust somewhat and the process starts over again. When you reach a gear that's long enough (timewise) to "overload" the exhaust systems capacity, you will have a slight reduction in power."
As far as improving the engine is concerned, we have only seen people make simple bolt on modifications. This seems to be the Hotroding style these days.
I would like to know what kind of power a big vtec cam would make. If anyone can find some adjustable cam sprockets maybe we could experiment with cam timing too. Flow test and port the head? Larger/better valves? Lot's of stuff we can do to the engine!
By the way, a Honda 750 Superbike makes about 40hp (that's alot in the bike world) more then the 750 streetbike it's based on.
Speed is just a question of money..how fast do you want to go?
10-18-2000, 04:44 AM
#23
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally posted by Luis:
I beg to disagree. Some mods, like cold air intake, will not be seen on the dyno. The best way to measure engine power improvements is to measure in-gear acceleration.
I beg to disagree. Some mods, like cold air intake, will not be seen on the dyno. The best way to measure engine power improvements is to measure in-gear acceleration.
When the car is warm the stock intake (presumably) will drop off in horespower because of the warm air and the cold-air intake will keep the air cooler and have a smaller amount of HP loss (not an increase).
Now there are some that claim their cold air intakes increase air volume and if that's the case then yes there should be an increase of HP and should be measurable.
10-18-2000, 05:44 AM
#24
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: San Juan
Posts: 545
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bieg:
[B]
I also believe that people who spend much money on aftermarket parts are a little hesitant to admitt that they really did not pick up as much HP as they imagined they would.
[B]
I also believe that people who spend much money on aftermarket parts are a little hesitant to admitt that they really did not pick up as much HP as they imagined they would.
10-20-2000, 02:40 PM
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Pepe,
Calm down please! Nothing I posted was addressed to you. If you have made your mods and proved their worth on the Dyno I have no reason to doubt you. I was gearing my posts to those less proffesional than you. The people who look through the speed catalogs and think because the manufacturer of this bolt on says it will give 5 HP and then this other part will give 10 HP that they can just keep bolting on parts and adding up the manufacturers claims till they get 400 HP etc.....
I have the utmost respect for someone such as youself who experiments with a part, runs it on the Dyno and either proves or disproves it's worth. As a matter of fact you pretty much prove my theory because even with all the dyno time and the work you have done you don't claim over 20 HP.
Over how many miles have these modifications of yours span? Meaning that if you have 7500 miles on the motor now even if you made no modifications the Dyno would show a small but significant increase in power just because the engine has run in a bit and loosened up. You need to factor that in if your mods have spanned many miles.
Louis
[quote}You cannot shift HP around the rev range. [/quote]
You missinterpeted what I said. I was referring to making mods that lost HP at one RPM range and increased it in another. That is what I was refering to when I said "shifting" HP over the rev range.
Calm down please! Nothing I posted was addressed to you. If you have made your mods and proved their worth on the Dyno I have no reason to doubt you. I was gearing my posts to those less proffesional than you. The people who look through the speed catalogs and think because the manufacturer of this bolt on says it will give 5 HP and then this other part will give 10 HP that they can just keep bolting on parts and adding up the manufacturers claims till they get 400 HP etc.....
I have the utmost respect for someone such as youself who experiments with a part, runs it on the Dyno and either proves or disproves it's worth. As a matter of fact you pretty much prove my theory because even with all the dyno time and the work you have done you don't claim over 20 HP.
Over how many miles have these modifications of yours span? Meaning that if you have 7500 miles on the motor now even if you made no modifications the Dyno would show a small but significant increase in power just because the engine has run in a bit and loosened up. You need to factor that in if your mods have spanned many miles.
Louis
[quote}You cannot shift HP around the rev range. [/quote]
You missinterpeted what I said. I was referring to making mods that lost HP at one RPM range and increased it in another. That is what I was refering to when I said "shifting" HP over the rev range.
10-20-2000, 04:42 PM
#26
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Windham, NH
Posts: 648
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OK pardon my ignorance but isn't OBD II the reason we can't extract easy HP for the S2000? With most engines (read airpumps) more fuel + air + compression = more power. My understanding of the electronics in OBD II is that they compensate for mods and drag potential down. Also I'd be the first to admit I may be wrong here, but when I was a kid (and big block chevy's ruled) nothing beat displacement, either through forced induction or playing with bore and stroke.
sorry for the ramble... one further thought do you consider NO2 to be forced induction? Best bang for the buck, always was, always will be.
Now if someone could fit a 6-71 and some Hilborn injectors on this baby it would fly
...
[This message has been edited by Munch (edited October 20, 2000).]
sorry for the ramble... one further thought do you consider NO2 to be forced induction? Best bang for the buck, always was, always will be.
Now if someone could fit a 6-71 and some Hilborn injectors on this baby it would fly
...[This message has been edited by Munch (edited October 20, 2000).]
10-20-2000, 05:22 PM
#28
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Lisbon
Posts: 1,921
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is one of the topics where the evidence is overwhelming. Chris put it exactly right.
Now, rambling a bit about improving a little more:
The F20C has a slightly thinner head gasket than our F20C1 and F20C2 which raises compression to 11.7 producing another 10HP in the process. I have never got confirmation that the F20C requires 100RON. I suspect that 98RON is all that it requires. As this is not readily and widely available in most countries, Honda may have decided to lower compression for our geographies.
Anyone familiar with Japan care to clarify?
By the way, Spoon has an even thinner head gasket that raises compression to 12.2. Don't know what the HP claimed gain is.
How much work is involved in replacing the head gasket? By looking at the Helms it sounds like a lot of work (and risk...). The gasket itself is not expensive. The ECU you might need to make it all work, however, is.
[This message has been edited by Luis (edited October 20, 2000).]
Now, rambling a bit about improving a little more:
The F20C has a slightly thinner head gasket than our F20C1 and F20C2 which raises compression to 11.7 producing another 10HP in the process. I have never got confirmation that the F20C requires 100RON. I suspect that 98RON is all that it requires. As this is not readily and widely available in most countries, Honda may have decided to lower compression for our geographies.
Anyone familiar with Japan care to clarify?
By the way, Spoon has an even thinner head gasket that raises compression to 12.2. Don't know what the HP claimed gain is.
How much work is involved in replacing the head gasket? By looking at the Helms it sounds like a lot of work (and risk...). The gasket itself is not expensive. The ECU you might need to make it all work, however, is.
[This message has been edited by Luis (edited October 20, 2000).]