Some rev-matching questions
Originally Posted by Benihana,Oct 14 2009, 11:33 PM
Sorry for my ignorance, but am I rev matching improperly if I do the following procedure?
1. Clutch In
2. Shift into neutral
3. While keeping foot on gas, apply enough gas to get RPM's up
4. Shift into lower gear
1. Clutch In
2. Shift into neutral
3. While keeping foot on gas, apply enough gas to get RPM's up
4. Shift into lower gear
First the purpose of heel toe downshifting is to downshift to the lower gear while slowing (i.e. applying the brake) so that you are at the perfect point in the power band to accelerate out of the corner. So you are always braking when heel toe downshifting.
The process should go something like this:
-coming up to the braking point for a corner, off throttle and apply the brake
-clutch in shifter out of gear heading to the lower gear. I find it best to just hold the shifter right at the "gate" of the lower gear (or the point where it feels like just a bit more force and it will go into the gear, but don't apply the force)
-at about the same time you are doing above, you are either rotating your heel over to the gas pedal or rolling the right side of your foot (it all just depends on what works best for your foot size/feel). You are still braking with your toe or inside of your foot.
-blip the throttle (start off by just nailing that sucker until you develop the feel to modulate it closer to the target rpms). Again you are still braking
-you should still be applying just enough pressure to the shifter to keep it out of the gear, but still applying pressure towards the lower gear. At some point while bliping the shifter will just fall into gear, at that point let the clutch out and bingo you should be in the lower gear and the transition should have been smooth. At this point you still may be on the brake; however atleast for me if I am still on the brake this most likely means I need to go down yet another gear, which means repeat above.
It will take a while to really get the timing to the point where you have nice smooth perfect execution, but I think one of the keys is keeping the shifter at that point where it is just about to fall into gear, until it just falls in. My reasoning is that by doing this you better develop a feel for where the tranny is at with relation to being matched and therefore can more easily develop timing, this is just one of the tricks I use. Once you get the timing the speed will come, and it is always easier to learn if you are applying a lot of brake, it gets more difficult as you have to actually modulate brake pressure and blip the throttle (almost like rubbing your belly and taping your head
)
Just got home from doing some heel-toe on the on/off ramps and I still need some practice. A couple of the shifts I did were smooth, but the rest were me messing up cause I keep thinking I will over "blip" the throttle and ruin it. I could have gotten more practice in, but I found myself finding vtec in 2nd on the on-ramp was more fun haha.
As far as the rev matching goes, I'm depressing the throttle while I'm on it while the clutch is pressed in to shift. Normally I press on the accelerator after I clutch in and shift into neutral. As far as depressing the throttle, I'm revving it at about 1-1.5k going from 4th to 3rd, and about 2-2.5k from 3rd to 2nd; depending on speed. Not sure if depressing the accelerator like that is correct and/or if it is detrimental to my car.
As far as the rev matching goes, I'm depressing the throttle while I'm on it while the clutch is pressed in to shift. Normally I press on the accelerator after I clutch in and shift into neutral. As far as depressing the throttle, I'm revving it at about 1-1.5k going from 4th to 3rd, and about 2-2.5k from 3rd to 2nd; depending on speed. Not sure if depressing the accelerator like that is correct and/or if it is detrimental to my car.
Originally Posted by JFUSION,Oct 10 2009, 04:41 PM
What you should be doing is double clutch downshifts to help get a smoother shift. If you do this right it will put less strain on the synchros on downshifts. What you need to do is clutch in put shifter in neutral position, let clutch out, blip throttle with a good jab, then depress clutch and move shifter into lower gear of your choice with a bit of throttle while rev matching a tad. It takes some practice to do it quick enough but if you get it right it is a very smooth downshift.
Originally Posted by J'sS2K,Oct 16 2009, 07:55 PM
you obviously don't know how to drive manual. double-clutch doesn't smooth out anything. it's not necessary at all in modern cars and in this car to say the least.
And you sir, obviously did not read the entire discussion we had on how to "put less strain" on the syncros.
Originally Posted by ikeyballz,Oct 17 2009, 04:01 AM
And you sir, obviously did not read the entire discussion we had on how to "put less strain" on the syncros.
Originally Posted by J'sS2K,Oct 16 2009, 11:55 PM
you obviously don't know how to drive manual. double-clutch doesn't smooth out anything. it's not necessary at all in modern cars and in this car to say the least.
btw to be technical stress is the force applied (to the synchronizers). strain is deformation in response. thus, double-clutching (or "declutching") "puts less" STRESS on the syncros thus consequently lessens the STRAIN
[/semantic geek speak]
Originally Posted by J'sS2K,Oct 17 2009, 09:47 PM
you sir are wasting your time...what do you do when you see incorrect information?
What we all agreed on is that double-clutching IS smoother and it WILL reduce wear and tear on the synchros. This is what we said, and it's true. If it's confusing to you, find a copy of Skip Barber's "Going Faster" at your library or bookstore for an excellent explanation of how a manual transmission works, including diagrams. You may think you know how to drive one, but yours posts indicate you don't understand how one works.
There's only so much we can do to help folks who are willfully ignorant.
I've learned a great deal from people on these forums. Hopefully you can do the same.
Originally Posted by badboy00z,Oct 18 2009, 02:47 PM
The RPM to which you have to rev to depends on the gear and speed you're going. I find that it is very difficult to get it right every time. I don't think even pros can do it 100% of the time.
i guess the difference is that a race driver may mismatch slightly just once every 30-40 corners or not at all whilst a decent regular driver might do it once every 20 corners.
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