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sorry but i dont see how you guys can spend so much on the comptech or spoon and such...so much money for little gains. I have an AEM and i too was worried about hydrolock...so i switcheed back to stock...but stayed stock for a few days and couldn't stand the wimpy engine sound compared to the AEM.
So back under the hood, that CAI went. never think twice about removing it anymore.
I am so confused every one is giving a different opinion, I guess it understandable. I have a few questions 1) Does the Spoon/Mingster give as much power as the AEM/Injen. 2)Does anyone have any info on the PRM one. and 3)Is the HKS Honda certified. Maybe I'll just start a poll.
Not sure what is going on with the search feature but if it was up, you'd have a half hours worth of reading with my previous PRM threads. Some quick highlights though from above comments.
1. Accelerometer tests with my PRM in place after no less than 16 runs (to date). Average performance decrease in 1/4 mile times from pre-PRM install is .27 seconds (nearly three car lengths). This equates to roughly 11.7 additional hp (remember, this really can't be compared to dyno #'s).
2. The hose section of my intake was an idea of MINE and not PRM's. The inlet horn of the stock set-up (linked in an earlier post here) shows the PRM installed correctly but I wanted more of a "forced air" involvement. I felt there was too much of a gap between air coming up from the wheel well and the entrance to the horn. As such, I went to Home Depot and for about $5, bought some PVC pipes (actually picked out the curved sections I felt would fit and give me the required path) and connected them, covered the top part with Rubatex heat insulation material and snaked it down about 6-7-inches deep in the wheel well, just above the cut-out area down there. Any air that is getting forced up in there at speed is being routed DIRECTLY into the piping and straight into the intake...which leads me to point #3
3. The K&N filter which resides within the black air box is NOT prevy to heat soak like early S2K CAI's. The black casing does a very good job of isolating the filter from the heat eminating from the engine compartment. I wrapped the box in Rubatex to make it even more cooler inside there and it works great. The filter is inverted (think reverse) from your typical stock angle but PRM would be better at explaining that logic than I. PRM is world reknown for their intake success with Subaru Rally cars and non-racing Impreza's. They're not a fly by night shop. I believe, up until a few weeks ago anyways, I was the only S2K owner in the country with their latest version of the S2K intake but obviously with my own mods, this is not something you're going to see very often. By the way, the sound coming from under the hood COMPLIMENTS my Tanabe and does not mask over it. Some intakes....well, you can pretty much guess what brand is under the hood by the sound. I do not like an exhaust note that suffers from an overeager CAI contribution. I prefer the cat-back to do the talking and the PRM definitely lets the Tanabe distinquish my engine note. VTEC comes on LOUDER, that's for sure, but it sounds about the same as it did before the Tanabe. Exactly what I wanted.
Anyways...install is about 40 minutes and it could easily be taken off prior to dealer visits for you nervous nellies. Something to ponder...the Comptech CAI houses its filter in the location above the wheel well area. There is no DIRECT feed from the bottom of that area to the filter. My "design" creates a straight path right into the circular air box and to the filter, which has then only ONE bend to get to the MAF. I have always preferred a CAI that minimizes the distance between the filter and MAF. I don't like plumbing with too many bends or long travels but that is just me. Many AEM and INJEN customers are happy with their units. I know I am with mine as well.
A CAI and an intake are essentially two diff. things. The typical after-market intake is "supposed" to flow air more freely into the throttle body than the stock air intake, primarily because the supplied filter is supposedly freer in air flow. The CAI, on the other hand, supposedly draws "cold" air from outside the engine bay and sends it through the intake/filter system to the throttle body. So, the new intake is supposed to free-flow and the CAI is supposed to draw cold air. Some combine both effects (e.g., the AEM, Injen, and modified PRM).
People buy CAI units for two reasons: hopes for good sound and hopes for increased power.
No matter who's CAI we are talking about, the entire point of a CAI is to get more air into the engine so that more fuel can be burned to produce more HP. Air that is pre-heated by the engine is less desirable than "cold" air from outside the engine bay. So, if the primary intake point with the intake is w/in the engine bay, then even if it does allow better flow of air into the engine, it will be heated air = less power than cold air.
For example, very early on I bought the RM Racing intake. The cone filter for it sits directly in front of and only a few inches away from the engine block. The filter basically is open on all sides. The lovely aluminum tubing that leads from the filter to the throttle body heats like crazy, especially in the heat of the summer or traffic driving.
As an option, RM has an extension from the filter to the right side of the radiator leading down in front of the radiator. The intent is to gain a "ram air" effect after the vehicle is up to a fairly high speed (say, 55 mph plus). That helped, but did not solve the heated aluminum tubing problem and since the filter unit was still sucking air from w/in the engine bay, the net effect was not that good.
The PRM unit that Russ has installed is essentially sealed and draws air to the filter only through the "horn", which is aimed towards the wheel well on the right side of the engine bay.
Russ modified his w/ a plastic pipe that inserts into the horn and goes down actually into the wheel well. As I understand it, both the AEM and Injen CAIs draw air from the same place. I don't know which of the three (AEM, Injen, or PRM) goes the deepest towards the ground once the piping goes down into the wheel well.
The hydrolock problem worried about by so many is based on the concern that the intake point for the piping in the wheel well may become submerged and suck water into the engine. That's a bad thing!!
The AEM unit can be optioned w/ a gadget that supposedly prevents water from being sucked into the intake.
I don't think that either the Comptech or the new (relatively) K&N unit has piping that extends down into the wheel well, and thus may or may not actually be true CAI units. I've heard good things about both of them though.
The Spoon/Mingster units are, according to Mingster, not really CAI units, but merely cold air ducts which feed air from in front of the radiator directly into the mouth of the stock air intake unit. Both have the "ram air" capability, since both have the mouths of their units sited in front of the radiator w/ a fairly large air scoop. I dumped my RM Racing unit, put a JRs Filter into my stock air box, and added the Mingster cold air duct. Clearly helps in hot weather a/or stop-and-go traffic driving, since air is drawn from in front of the radiator. Further, it has the ram-air effect.
I don't have knowledge of ANYBODY'S dyno results for the CAIs on the market.
Obviously, the "ram air" units do not do anything at all when the car is not moving through the air at good speed, so it is not possible to measure their value on a dyno. Both do, however, draw air from outside of the engine bay. In any event, after reading many, many threads on CAIs, I have reached the following conclusions:
1) Ram air units can't effectively be measured on a dyno and require fairly brisk speeds to operate effectively. The AEM, PRM, and Injen don't have the ram air effect and neither does the new K&N unit nor the Comptech.
2) Apparently the consensus is that the AEM and Injen units flow air well and draw it from the wheel well, where the air is cooler than the engine bay. Both also allegedly will add some HP.
3) The PRM unit is not in wide use so we have only Russ's info on it. IMO, Russ's modified unit seems to be the best around, since no cutting is involved. In that regard, I don't know if the AEM or Injen units require cutting.
4) The possibility of hydrolock on any of the various units does not scare me, since the intake opening would have to be submerged. In my view, that is unlikely.
WOW, Thanks Russ and Pixsurguy for the great info.
The PRM one seems devastating, but i'd only want it if I could have the exact setup Russ has with his.
Russ if its possible could you give us some info on how to get the PRM one and how much it costs, I tried to call them but its not working. or just pm me. I dont want to anger anyone if they aren't sponsors of this site.
You can cut out one or both of the "foglight" holes on either side to increase airflow into the engine compartment. If you do this, and then add an AEM or Injen, you will be pleasantly surprised to see the filter right behind the open hole. I'm sure it helps, but I doubt that you would get any more than 1 HP out of it, I may be wrong.
Russ - I agree, your intake is awesome, BUT only if your setup was the way they sold it. With some custom work you can get HP out of the stock box, but if you are going to go out and just buy an intake or CAI, I think they would be better off with the AEM or Injen, or even possibly the new K&N. The mugen and comptech intakes are great and all, but for the gain you get the money hardly seems worth it IMO.
Hey Mingster, I was wondering how your/Spoon's CF CAI compares to the AEM/Injen/PRM on in terms of performance gains. I was told the sound isn't as pronounced since you still use the stock air box. but knowing that its designed from Spoon means that its bulletproof and you can easily switch to stock.
If I had to do it all over again, I'd still spend the extra cash and get the Comptech CAI again. It has great sound, no chance of hydro-lock, requires no cutting, and still get its "cold air" from the same wheel well as the AEM, Injen.
