Utah S2K

Few here have actual "hands on" experience with the F20C.......Derryck does. If it's good enough for Derryck, it's good enough for me.......besides, it's intercooled.

cjb80

Here's the deal.. the turbo is hot as hell anyways (it connects directly, and is located right next to the header) so there isn't any point in taking in cold air because it is going to be super heated anyways. An intercooler will take that 'super heated' air and cool it down to ambient or near ambient temps (within a few degrees) and can even cool below ambient temps if water is used.

A ram air system would be pointless on a turbo cause a turbo is boosting anyways.

AusS2000

Sorry to call you on this, but that ain't exactly true. Intercoolers are a necessity, not a luxury in applications like this. That's why the Comptech SC is limited to 6psi and the proposed Vortech has an IC.

There is not sense in sucking in hot air then trying to compress it, then cool it. The cooler the air you suck in the better compression you'll get and the better the system will work. This is particularly true on hot days, in traffic when the IC is so heat soaked it's hardly doing it's job any more.

Yes, until we have hard data this is all just speculation, but lack of hard data (often refered to as ignorance) is no excuse for obvious bad design.

temin

AusS2000:

I didn't mean that the intercooler was the extra hardware. I mean the heat shield and the extra plumbing involved in moving the intake.

If the intercooler is so efficient that it reduces intake temperatures down to near ambient even on a hot summer day then why add extra fluff to a system that doesn't need it? That's called poor engineering. The best turbo kit is going to be the one that gets the job done with the least amount of extra pieces.

And cjb80 is right. The compressor gets so hot that reducing the intake air really isn't going to make a difference. Any reduction in temperature from moving the intake away from the engine is just going to get thrown out the door once the intake air approaches the compressor.

And for better compression? The turbo is capable of squeezing way more than what Speedcraft has its kit designed to do. Bump up the boost controller until the output of the turbo is where you want it.

The intercooler is necessary. As long as the output from the intercooler doesn't get heated up too much then it doesn't really matter.

Temin

GR8-S2K

Whenever you compress a gas (air), it heats up. If you've ever used a bicycle pump, you'll know exactly what I mean. The increase in temerature is very significant; at 6 PSI boost, the temperature would rise over 100 degrees F. Introducing air at high temperatures into the combustion chamber can cause premature detonation (pinging), which is a great way to destroy an engine.

The purpose of an intercooler is to cool the compressed air down prior to it entering the combustion chamber, so that there is no premature detonation. Thus the objective is somewhat different than CAI, whose purpose is simply to get more/denser air into the combustion chamber.

The bottom line is that with or without an intercooler, the air temperature coming out of a blower/turbocharger is *significantly* higher than a naturally aspirated engine. The more you can cool down the heat, the greater your margin of safety, and the more efficient your motor will be.

One final note: the heating of the intake air is mostly the result of compression, not as a result of proximity to a hot engine or hot exhaust.

seung

still faster than the most of us.

integrate

my car needs a better intercooler, stock one sucks balls

My car's way to restricted.

derryck

Just out of curiousity... how many of you experts build hybrid turbos for a living? Oh... none of you. Hmmm... guess my mechanic might of had a reason for doing it his way, could have something to do with having two of the highest RWHP S2000's in the country. Maybe he knew what he was doing.

infinitebass

derryck, I don't think that was necessary. They were currently discussing why it was ok to have the intake so close, and the reasons behind an intercooler and why the air gets hot. There was no need for sarcasm, as no one was attacking you, and I don't think really anyone was even saying that your setup could be improved. And just because they don't build turbo systems, doesn't mean they don't know enough about them to make a statement as to how it works. In fact, I can name a lot of people who build things, yet don't understand the physics behind them.

Blake

derryck

Blake,
I understand your point and it's a point well taken. I'm just tired of all of the 'armchair quarterbacks' around here. When I initially started posting that I was working on getting a turbo done there were those who casted doubt. I get it done and still they cast doubt. I make a simple post that someone dynoed at 212 RWHP again they cast doubt. I post dyno charts and now I'm on an optimistic dyno. I guess I'm just sick of the negativitiy towards my turbo and the praise for the Comptech setup which is IMO not worth half of what they charge for it.