Speeding, test pipes, and morality
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From: Berkeley, CA
[QUOTE=geists2k,Jan 21 2007, 09:44 AM] Oh good grief man! 
Where on earth in your mind can you try and draw some moral equivalence between committing a felony act like robbing someone
Where on earth in your mind can you try and draw some moral equivalence between committing a felony act like robbing someone
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Originally Posted by shrike,Jan 21 2007, 01:05 PM
I think his point is not moral equivalence (which, as you point out, is absurd), but the logical equivalence of the arguments: if only a few people do it, it's OK to do.
He's pointing out your inconsistency. You're claiming teh inconsistency is warranted by the degree of importance of the two questions.
He's pointing out your inconsistency. You're claiming teh inconsistency is warranted by the degree of importance of the two questions.
Logical equivalence?
Sorry, but you cannot involve logic on any level when you try to compare a felony act to putting a test pipe on a car. It's simply ridiculous.
This is a political issue more than anything else, and the roots of his and your arguments and views are firmly grounded there, so the likelihood of either of us convincing each other is fairly slim.
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From: Downtown Dallas TX
I'll fully admit that I rationalize my use of a test pipe because of how small it's contribution to "global warming" relative to ALL the other contributers really is. I believe this to be a needle in the haystack issue. The fact of the matter is, I'm a human being. I'm not perfect. Neither are you. I have wants and desires that may or may not be good for mankind as a whole. So do you. Buy Nikes? You're a bastard because you're supporting sweatshops. Have more than 1 child? Arrogant. Don't give 10% of your income to charity? Selfish. Don't tithe? Godless. Listen to NPR without donating? Theif. Fart, burp, smoke, drive a two-seat sports car, enjoy motorsports, eat beef, drink milk? How ego-centric.
Do a google search for say..."study: cows pollute more than cars" and count how many studies have been commissioned which have determined that livestock contribute more to "global warming" than automobiles.
"This UN study estimates that the livestock sector accounts for 9 percent of carbon dioxide, 65 percent of nitrous oxide, and 37 percent of methane produced from human-related activities. Both methane (23 times) and nitrous oxide (296 times) are considerably more potent greenhouse gases than carbon dioxide. Livestock also generates 64 percent of human-related ammonia, which contributes to acid rain."
Let's not make this into something it's not. Sure, running a test-pipe is not great. But neither are you. So while you're enjoying the self-gratification (masturbation) you're getting out of scolding those who run test-pipes, make sure you read the ingredient list on that soap box on which your standing. Chances are, it's toxic as well.
Do a google search for say..."study: cows pollute more than cars" and count how many studies have been commissioned which have determined that livestock contribute more to "global warming" than automobiles.
"This UN study estimates that the livestock sector accounts for 9 percent of carbon dioxide, 65 percent of nitrous oxide, and 37 percent of methane produced from human-related activities. Both methane (23 times) and nitrous oxide (296 times) are considerably more potent greenhouse gases than carbon dioxide. Livestock also generates 64 percent of human-related ammonia, which contributes to acid rain."
Let's not make this into something it's not. Sure, running a test-pipe is not great. But neither are you. So while you're enjoying the self-gratification (masturbation) you're getting out of scolding those who run test-pipes, make sure you read the ingredient list on that soap box on which your standing. Chances are, it's toxic as well.
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From: Long Beach, CA
Originally Posted by camera obscura,Jan 21 2007, 01:35 PM
I'll fully admit that I rationalize my use of a test pipe because of how small it's contribution to "global warming" relative to ALL the other contributers really is. I believe this to be a needle in the haystack issue. The fact of the matter is, I'm a human being. I'm not perfect. Neither are you. I have wants and desires that may or may not be good for mankind as a whole. So do you. Buy Nikes? You're a bastard because you're supporting sweatshops. Have more than 1 child? Arogant. Don't give 10% of your income to charity? Selfish. Don't tithe? Godless. Listen to NPR without donating? Theif. Fart, burp, smoke, drive a two-seat sports car, enjoy motorsports, eat beef, drink milk? How ego-centric.
Do a google search for say..."study: cows pollute more than cars" and count how many studies have been commissioned which have determined that livestock contribute more to "global warming" than automobiles.
"This UN study estimates that the livestock sector accounts for 9 percent of carbon dioxide, 65 percent of nitrous oxide, and 37 percent of methane produced from human-related activities. Both methane (23 times) and nitrous oxide (296 times) are considerably more potent greenhouse gases than carbon dioxide. Livestock also generates 64 percent of human-related ammonia, which contributes to acid rain."
Let's not make this into something it's not. Sure, running a test-pipe is not great. But neither are you. So while you're enjoying the self-gratification (masturbation) you're getting out of scolding those who run test-pipes, make sure you read the ingredient list on that soap box on which your standing. Chances are, it's toxic as well.
Do a google search for say..."study: cows pollute more than cars" and count how many studies have been commissioned which have determined that livestock contribute more to "global warming" than automobiles.
"This UN study estimates that the livestock sector accounts for 9 percent of carbon dioxide, 65 percent of nitrous oxide, and 37 percent of methane produced from human-related activities. Both methane (23 times) and nitrous oxide (296 times) are considerably more potent greenhouse gases than carbon dioxide. Livestock also generates 64 percent of human-related ammonia, which contributes to acid rain."
Let's not make this into something it's not. Sure, running a test-pipe is not great. But neither are you. So while you're enjoying the self-gratification (masturbation) you're getting out of scolding those who run test-pipes, make sure you read the ingredient list on that soap box on which your standing. Chances are, it's toxic as well.
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From: Redmond, Washington, USA
This has been an interesting thread.
No rational person can deny that cars have pollution control devices for the common good, and that these pollution control devices have made a huge difference in air pollution, particularly in urban/suburban locations. If everyone gutted their cat, pollution would be much worse, to the significant detriment of public health. But people rationalize breaking the law, for very little actual gain in power, by saying that it's only one car. Or because cows fart. Or they hate "tree huggers." Or something. Amazing.
Likewise with speeding, for which there are endless statistics showing, conclusively, that there is a high correlation between speed and highway deaths, and an even higher correlation between a wide difference in speeds on a particular road, and deaths. But Mike's already listed those rationalizations.
Good going guys. Some of you could convince yourselves that anything you do is "justified." Or the fault of "tree huggers." Or something.
No rational person can deny that cars have pollution control devices for the common good, and that these pollution control devices have made a huge difference in air pollution, particularly in urban/suburban locations. If everyone gutted their cat, pollution would be much worse, to the significant detriment of public health. But people rationalize breaking the law, for very little actual gain in power, by saying that it's only one car. Or because cows fart. Or they hate "tree huggers." Or something. Amazing.
Likewise with speeding, for which there are endless statistics showing, conclusively, that there is a high correlation between speed and highway deaths, and an even higher correlation between a wide difference in speeds on a particular road, and deaths. But Mike's already listed those rationalizations.
Good going guys. Some of you could convince yourselves that anything you do is "justified." Or the fault of "tree huggers." Or something.
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Originally Posted by 124Spider,Jan 21 2007, 02:20 PM
This has been an interesting thread.
No rational person can deny that cars have pollution control devices for the common good, and that these pollution control devices have made a huge difference in air pollution, particularly in urban/suburban locations. If everyone gutted their cat, pollution would be much worse, to the significant detriment of public health. But people rationalize breaking the law, for very little actual gain in power, by saying that it's only one car. Or because cows fart. Or they hate "tree huggers." Or something. Amazing.
Likewise with speeding, for which there are endless statistics showing, conclusively, that there is a high correlation between speed and highway deaths, and an even higher correlation between a wide difference in speeds on a particular road, and deaths. But Mike's already listed those rationalizations.
Good going guys. Some of you could convince yourselves that anything you do is "justified." Or the fault of "tree huggers." Or something.
No rational person can deny that cars have pollution control devices for the common good, and that these pollution control devices have made a huge difference in air pollution, particularly in urban/suburban locations. If everyone gutted their cat, pollution would be much worse, to the significant detriment of public health. But people rationalize breaking the law, for very little actual gain in power, by saying that it's only one car. Or because cows fart. Or they hate "tree huggers." Or something. Amazing.
Likewise with speeding, for which there are endless statistics showing, conclusively, that there is a high correlation between speed and highway deaths, and an even higher correlation between a wide difference in speeds on a particular road, and deaths. But Mike's already listed those rationalizations.
Good going guys. Some of you could convince yourselves that anything you do is "justified." Or the fault of "tree huggers." Or something.
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From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Originally Posted by camera obscura,Jan 21 2007, 12:28 PM
Please. It'd be great if someone from some Toyota Prius internet forum saw this thread and reprimanded you for emitting more emmisions driving your car at 9K RPM during your 2 and 3 minute autocross runs (nice avatar, genius) than they emit in a month. Give me a F-ing break.
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From: NC
Originally Posted by 124Spider,Jan 21 2007, 02:20 PM
...Likewise with speeding, for which there are endless statistics showing, conclusively, that there is a high correlation between speed and highway deaths, and an even higher correlation between a wide difference in speeds on a particular road, and deaths....
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From: Redmond, Washington, USA
Originally Posted by camera obscura,Jan 21 2007, 11:28 AM
Give me a F-ing break.