Hi Mikey-

Call up King Motorsports @ 262-593-2800. Both front sway bars cost the same, $384 according to their website. I'm sure they would have a better grasp than any of us of what would work best for you.

-Nick

 

I used a larger front and rear sway bar (suspension technique) on my previous celica.
The effect is less body roll and a little bit rougher ride on bumpy surface. The sway bar "connects" the left and right together and makes the suspension "less" independent.

 

The Mugen bar is *absolutely* HEAVIER than the stock bar. Who told you it wasnt? I've got the Mugen bar and while I didnt get a chance to weigh it compared to the stock bar (I will soon), it was pretty obvious just holding it in my hands along with the stock bar that it's heavier... which makes sense because the construction of the Mugen bar is IDENTICAL to the stock piece, save for the thicker material. It seems pretty likely that the Mugen bar got squirted out of the same machine as the stock bar, just using a bigger tube. It's even got the same paint markings as the factory piece.

Despite the way some people on this board talk about anything Mugen, there's nothing special about their swaybar and it's incredibly overpriced for what you get. Not to say it wont help, but theres certainly nothing *magical* about it...

-jason


[This message has been edited by j2k (edited November 16, 2000).]

 

Jason-

When you can compare the difference between the stock swaybar, which is hollow, vs. one that is solid, then get back to me. Solid swaybars weigh significantly more- and it just so happens that almost all the other aftermarket swaybars are solid- including the RM Racing, Suspension Techniques (who probably make them for RM), CompTech, etc. Comparing hollow tubes is negligible, whereas a solid one would be between 7-9lbs heavier- yes, heavier than stock. It just so happens that the Mugen swaybars are hollow.

You're not too far off when it comes to guessing where they come from- but the labor and costs involved with switching the extrusion dies on the machines for a "one off" (in terms of real world production numbers the Mugen swaybars are probably seen as that to the production people) are absolutely real. And yes, hollow swaybars are MUCH more expensive to make, which is why other companies don't make them. I've done some metal extrusion work in the past, and I think I can say with some authority that turning the line off and on for a custom piece costs the company lots of money.

In any case, don't necessarily listen to me, ask King Motorsports directly.

-Nick

[This message has been edited by GTRPower (edited November 16, 2000).]

 

Nick, aren't we just talking about bending tubing vs. bending solid rod? Where does the extruding come into play?

 

Hi RT-

Yes, we're talking (in simplified terms) about bending a pipe vs. a solid rod. However, a pipe has to be formed from raw stock (the raw material is the cheapest quotient here), either as a seamed tube or seamless tube extrusion. Different outer diameters coupled with different inner diameters means that it needs a different extrusion die to produce the raw tube stock. On top of that, many low cost metal tubes you see are seamed- rolled from a sheet, then welded. Those pipes are not suitable for highly stressed jobs such as being used as a torsion bar- the welds rarely hold up under the pressure. Seamless pipes that require extra finishing steps cost more to work on than bar stock that are shaped- why are mandrel bent exhaust tubes more expensive than crush bent- the same reason. Thus, you can infer from my simplified (and probably somewhat inaccurate) explanation that a hollow swaybar goes through several more production steps vs. a solid one, and that it costs even more when regular production of the standard OEM bar has to be halted in order to make the small quantities of the aftermarket one. You can be sure that the Mugen bar is of the same quality as the OEM item, with a different torsional springrate. I don't know if you can be sure of the others...

Ultimately, you pay for the details when you buy whichever particular item. If you don't think they matter, then don't buy it- vote with you pocketbook. Granted, you are paying for the Mugen name to some degree, but I think it's a price that I personally am willing to pay because their parts have always performed as advertised.

-Nick

[This message has been edited by GTRPower (edited November 17, 2000).]

 

I just spoke with Scott a King Motorsports about their suspension bars.

He recommended for track use the 31mm front bar only. Saying that it would alleviate the snap-oversteer problem, especially when using stickier front rubber.

Apparantly the stock bridgestone S02's have a wider tread pattern on the front and a tighter pattern on the rear to accomplish much the same thing. But as soon as you go to Hoosier or Kuhmo track tires the snap-oversteer problem is much greater.

I haven't noticed the oversteer problem as yet, but I am running stock S02's. As I'll probably get some track-only Hoosiers for next year, I'll get the Mugen 31mm front bar at the same time.

 

I don't experience any snap oversteer issue on several track events. However, I did experience snap oversteer on the street and spun out twice.
One way to experience it is to take 90