Thinking of picking up a new S2K
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 7,904
Likes: 3,436
From: Foothills East of Sacramento
If you really want an analog car (getting ready for the zombie apocalypse?) then go for something with a rotor and distribution cap that can resist an EMP pulse and cannot be shut down remotely by Law Enforcement, the Feds, criminals (with stun guns) or the manufacturer over the "air".
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,756
Likes: 1,859
The dbw throttle response is also tunable. Flashpro, etc. When people talk about dbw feeling like there is lag, what they're really feeling is the non linear stock pedal map. The actual dbw response between pedal and throttle plate is immediate.
You can have someone professional tune the engine, then you can experiment all you want with pedal mapping, without affecting their engine tune.
From looking at stock pedal map, it seems to me like they were trying to numb the throttle at takeoff rpm, so people not used to driving manual didn't stall, and could take off smoothly.
Maybe it was more of a test drive thing. Casual drivers might be able to get used to a more linear throttle, but if they feel awkward on test drive, they might never buy. Back in the day, domestic cars had overly soft seats. Unsupportive for long trips. But felt comfy on test drives. The feeling of sitting on your couch watching tv. Maybe Honda got dealer feedback that people would test drive, then not buy.
Anyway, effect of this is throttle response feels numb driving around. They could have made it so at lower vehicle speeds its numb, for smooth take off, then at speeds above crawl throttle response more sensitive. But they didn't. The pedal tables allow for response based on speed. But Honda didn't implement stock map to take advantage of that.
They also made it so any pedal position above like 70% = 100% throttle. So you have literally zero affect on engine at highest throttle positions.
So of course it all feels off to a driving enthusiast.
But all these things are 'easy' to correct with Flashpro. Its not straightforward to understand how pedal tables work (two tables that work together). And it takes some experimenting to get it how you want. But actually making each change is easy.
I really like how my dbw throttle works now!
You can have someone professional tune the engine, then you can experiment all you want with pedal mapping, without affecting their engine tune.
From looking at stock pedal map, it seems to me like they were trying to numb the throttle at takeoff rpm, so people not used to driving manual didn't stall, and could take off smoothly.
Maybe it was more of a test drive thing. Casual drivers might be able to get used to a more linear throttle, but if they feel awkward on test drive, they might never buy. Back in the day, domestic cars had overly soft seats. Unsupportive for long trips. But felt comfy on test drives. The feeling of sitting on your couch watching tv. Maybe Honda got dealer feedback that people would test drive, then not buy.
Anyway, effect of this is throttle response feels numb driving around. They could have made it so at lower vehicle speeds its numb, for smooth take off, then at speeds above crawl throttle response more sensitive. But they didn't. The pedal tables allow for response based on speed. But Honda didn't implement stock map to take advantage of that.
They also made it so any pedal position above like 70% = 100% throttle. So you have literally zero affect on engine at highest throttle positions.
So of course it all feels off to a driving enthusiast.
But all these things are 'easy' to correct with Flashpro. Its not straightforward to understand how pedal tables work (two tables that work together). And it takes some experimenting to get it how you want. But actually making each change is easy.
I really like how my dbw throttle works now!
Last edited by Car Analogy; Dec 11, 2023 at 07:05 AM.
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,378
Likes: 444
From: um, a house
Prices are coming back down. What you said was true probably less than a year ago though.
The white is a decent deal at the price we agreed on and if prices snap back at some point I agree with you.
Right now it seems like low milage commands the higher prices, particularly sub 20k. The only reason the silver one is under $40k is because it's a trade at a Honda dealer and I think they know they're gonna sit on it for a little while if they don't price it fair.
I don't hate white car, I've had a few in fact but it's definitely not my preference. Silver on the other hand is. And I really like the low, low miles.
I think you're probably right about just getting the white one though. Only negative it had was that the drivers seat was a bit too creased on the egress side. Also, having owned a red/black in the past, it's strange to me that there's no red insert in the door panels to match the seats. Looked into it and that is in fact normal but it kinda irks me, red carpets, red seats but black doors... I'll probably get used to it.
Car is strong and in great condition too. The silver one is an unknown unless I fly out to see it but it has been fully inspected by Honda and has 16k miles so I figure how bad can it possibly be. Oh and also, it essentially looks brand new...
Decisions, decisions... Thanks for your input, you and the next few posts have definitely swayed me in the direction of just getting my neighbor's white one.
My only thought with the silver one is that as this time around it won't be my daily, it could easily be over 5yrs till I hit 30k in it. From a collection pov, having a clean sub 30k example going into the 2030s would probably be a good thing.
That said and from y'all's responses, clearly white/red is a thing and maybe that's more collectable.
The white is a decent deal at the price we agreed on and if prices snap back at some point I agree with you.
Right now it seems like low milage commands the higher prices, particularly sub 20k. The only reason the silver one is under $40k is because it's a trade at a Honda dealer and I think they know they're gonna sit on it for a little while if they don't price it fair.
I don't hate white car, I've had a few in fact but it's definitely not my preference. Silver on the other hand is. And I really like the low, low miles.
I think you're probably right about just getting the white one though. Only negative it had was that the drivers seat was a bit too creased on the egress side. Also, having owned a red/black in the past, it's strange to me that there's no red insert in the door panels to match the seats. Looked into it and that is in fact normal but it kinda irks me, red carpets, red seats but black doors... I'll probably get used to it.
Car is strong and in great condition too. The silver one is an unknown unless I fly out to see it but it has been fully inspected by Honda and has 16k miles so I figure how bad can it possibly be. Oh and also, it essentially looks brand new...
Decisions, decisions... Thanks for your input, you and the next few posts have definitely swayed me in the direction of just getting my neighbor's white one.
My only thought with the silver one is that as this time around it won't be my daily, it could easily be over 5yrs till I hit 30k in it. From a collection pov, having a clean sub 30k example going into the 2030s would probably be a good thing.
That said and from y'all's responses, clearly white/red is a thing and maybe that's more collectable.
But really, any s2000 is a good choice.
darcy
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 695
Likes: 3
From: San Diego
Picture update
Here are detailed pics from the last sale. Car is essentially the same but got a new soft top and has an extra few hundred miles on it.
Anyone have any thoughts before I pull the trigger? I drove it, feels strong, drives well. Pulled a Carfax just in case, seems in order.
Follow link for pics:
Bring a trailer link
Anyone have any thoughts before I pull the trigger? I drove it, feels strong, drives well. Pulled a Carfax just in case, seems in order.
Follow link for pics:
Bring a trailer link
Registered User
Joined: May 2023
Posts: 41
Likes: 17
From: Jacksonville
Not the full-on collector car because of the 9/10 VINs, but you are getting into the best (my opinion) and one of the rarest (fact) non-CR. Add in v3 and low miles and you’ve got a car you can drive regularly. As a bonus, if the seller is going to take a loss from his $50,000 purchase price (including BaT premium and sales tax), sounds like value.
I wish I had a chance at this between my ‘08 NFR with 22,000 miles. Would have been no choice for me.
I wish I had a chance at this between my ‘08 NFR with 22,000 miles. Would have been no choice for me.
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 695
Likes: 3
From: San Diego
Not the full-on collector car because of the 9/10 VINs, but you are getting into the best (my opinion) and one of the rarest (fact) non-CR. Add in v3 and low miles and you’ve got a car you can drive regularly. As a bonus, if the seller is going to take a loss from his $50,000 purchase price (including BaT premium and sales tax), sounds like value.
I wish I had a chance at this between my ‘08 NFR with 22,000 miles. Would have been no choice for me.
I wish I had a chance at this between my ‘08 NFR with 22,000 miles. Would have been no choice for me.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
erd
Texas - Houston S2000 Owners
5
May 13, 2002 04:20 PM