View Poll Results: What price HP and Torque? A poll.
Not interested in Mingster finding out, but I would like to buy it now
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What price HP and Torque? A poll.
03-29-2001, 07:22 PM
#21
Community Organizer
[QUOTE]Originally posted by mingster
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by josh3io
[b]most of the price doesn't come from materials, but manufacturing costs.
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by josh3io
[b]most of the price doesn't come from materials, but manufacturing costs.
03-30-2001, 05:12 AM
#22
Registered User
I saw this toy on a HK car magazine (Options??) about 9 months ago and I believe it listed it at 112,000 yens, which I guess is about $1,000 US. I'll double-check when I get home and post confirmation.
03-30-2001, 12:29 PM
#23
Registered User
Actually KidK, it'd be about $90 before I added in my profit :-). But I promised myself I'd never, ever sell parts in the automotive industry. Ask Richard what a pain that can be.
Richard, my fabrication partner and I would be happy to mess with it, but we've got other projects going. We've pretty much finished up our intercooler project (it worked, just not as well as we'd hoped) and are now working on some other stuff, including an S2K project. Basically, we work together to brainstorm, design and create stuff that we're interested in, then if he wants to sell it, he's welcome to. I just do it for the fun of it. Perhaps I should introduce you two, he's in Long Beach and is an engineer with a large company.
For the rest, seriously, that sort of intake is very cheap to make. We did a sheet metal intercooler system for another car that required similar box-like construction. Only we had to build something that could be pressurized, withstand 250 degree temps and had to have some compound curves in it. We did it with a $50 sheet metal brake, some shears, a hacksaw and a local welder. I had never worked with sheetmetal before and it wasn't very difficult. If ARC has a jig and templates, it would take all of 3-4 hours to make that unit from plain sheet metal. That's about $80-$100 in labor (including workman's comp, etc.). Add in $100 in materials and then assume 50% gross profit (which is high) for a price of $400. $500 max depending on distribution chains.
If you really wanted to do it right, you'd do the basic design in sheetmetal, then have a plastics company create a blow mold. Lighter, better thermal properties and cheaper to manufacture after the initial larger capital investment.
UL
Richard, my fabrication partner and I would be happy to mess with it, but we've got other projects going. We've pretty much finished up our intercooler project (it worked, just not as well as we'd hoped) and are now working on some other stuff, including an S2K project. Basically, we work together to brainstorm, design and create stuff that we're interested in, then if he wants to sell it, he's welcome to. I just do it for the fun of it. Perhaps I should introduce you two, he's in Long Beach and is an engineer with a large company.
For the rest, seriously, that sort of intake is very cheap to make. We did a sheet metal intercooler system for another car that required similar box-like construction. Only we had to build something that could be pressurized, withstand 250 degree temps and had to have some compound curves in it. We did it with a $50 sheet metal brake, some shears, a hacksaw and a local welder. I had never worked with sheetmetal before and it wasn't very difficult. If ARC has a jig and templates, it would take all of 3-4 hours to make that unit from plain sheet metal. That's about $80-$100 in labor (including workman's comp, etc.). Add in $100 in materials and then assume 50% gross profit (which is high) for a price of $400. $500 max depending on distribution chains.
If you really wanted to do it right, you'd do the basic design in sheetmetal, then have a plastics company create a blow mold. Lighter, better thermal properties and cheaper to manufacture after the initial larger capital investment.
UL
03-30-2001, 02:01 PM
#24
Registered User
Honestly I don't see just an intake "making" anywhere near 10HP on our cars much less have any positive effect on torque. A lot of the time, aftermarket engine mods actually move HP (from low to high rpms or vice versa) rather than really make it. Basically a "robbing peter to pay paul" type thing. For a racecar on the track, it might be okay to sacrifice some low end power to get high end power...but it probably doesn't make much sense on a street car.
03-31-2001, 10:27 AM
#25
Registered User
Well, you might be surprised by the improvements an intake can make. We can point out several areas on the S2K intake which might be improved.
1. The connector tube from the throttle body to airbox - there are some corrugations in this tube that don't help airflow. Also, the tube has a nasty resonant effect (its what causes the 'ooohhh' sound when the airbox cover is off) which may create power issues, and is certainly part of the reason for all the resonator chambers in the airbox.
2. Airfilter location - the stock airfilter has lots of filtering capacity, but the bottom part of the airfilter is largely masked off from airflow by the airbox. Ideally, you'd want the entire filtering surface available. Of course, you also have to tailor the airflow to effectively distribute air to the entire filter.
3. 90 degree bend from airbox inlet - Bends usually aren't conducive to good airflow. I'd want something that flowed air directly to the filter. In relation to #2, you might even want to have it setup so that the air circulates around the filter. The Mugen system looks like it might do this (only testing would tell).
4. Cold/ram air - the stock system does pull cool air, but you could do a better job of pressurizing the intake. Systems like the BYS intake plate make an attempt to do this using the stock equipment. The Mugen system is even better.
5. Airbox inlet size. If you look at the total intake area on the airbox inlet, I'll bet it is smaller than the intake tube area after the filter. I'd rather see it be a bit larger (again, check out the size of the Mugen).
Not saying it would be easy to improve on the stock system, but without noise constraints, cost constraints and manufacturing concerns (which Honda has to deal with), there are probably some gains to be had.
UL
1. The connector tube from the throttle body to airbox - there are some corrugations in this tube that don't help airflow. Also, the tube has a nasty resonant effect (its what causes the 'ooohhh' sound when the airbox cover is off) which may create power issues, and is certainly part of the reason for all the resonator chambers in the airbox.
2. Airfilter location - the stock airfilter has lots of filtering capacity, but the bottom part of the airfilter is largely masked off from airflow by the airbox. Ideally, you'd want the entire filtering surface available. Of course, you also have to tailor the airflow to effectively distribute air to the entire filter.
3. 90 degree bend from airbox inlet - Bends usually aren't conducive to good airflow. I'd want something that flowed air directly to the filter. In relation to #2, you might even want to have it setup so that the air circulates around the filter. The Mugen system looks like it might do this (only testing would tell).
4. Cold/ram air - the stock system does pull cool air, but you could do a better job of pressurizing the intake. Systems like the BYS intake plate make an attempt to do this using the stock equipment. The Mugen system is even better.
5. Airbox inlet size. If you look at the total intake area on the airbox inlet, I'll bet it is smaller than the intake tube area after the filter. I'd rather see it be a bit larger (again, check out the size of the Mugen).
Not saying it would be easy to improve on the stock system, but without noise constraints, cost constraints and manufacturing concerns (which Honda has to deal with), there are probably some gains to be had.
UL
03-31-2001, 12:49 PM
#26
Originally posted by mingster
(reaching for my SIG P220
)
..............................
(laughing)
(reaching for my SIG P220
)..............................
(laughing)
03-31-2001, 04:11 PM
#28
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Maybe there is a battery powered fan in that box!
That aside, the STB on the ARC site does look interesting though - must cost a bundle - being made from Ti.
http://www.jhkautomagic.com/arc1.htm
That aside, the STB on the ARC site does look interesting though - must cost a bundle - being made from Ti.
http://www.jhkautomagic.com/arc1.htm
03-31-2001, 04:39 PM
#29
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Originally posted by RT
Dude, you got a P220? I love those! Is yours chambered for .45 or 38 Super?
Originally posted by mingster
(reaching for my SIG P220)
..............................
(laughing)
(reaching for my SIG P220
)..............................
(laughing)
