Excellent clarifications! Thank you gentlemen.

More on the voilent SECOND slide. The relatively low torque and high handling limits of an S2k on track rubber means catching slide #1 early and cleanly will make your life a lot easier. Let's say your sliding in a third gear corner, meduim opposite lock, throttle planted or carefully modulated. As your sideward momentum slows and the slip angles are getting back to normal, there is not enough torque to keep the tires turning enough for a gradual hook up. The car hooks up before you are entirely straight and tosses the car the other way in a hurry. Cars like Vettes and Vipers have enough grunt to make that hook up less abrupt, but of course they may be more prone to power oversteer in the first place.

 

There's certainly a more noticeable snap with S02's than other tires, probably because the S02's have so much better dry grip. Other tires will lose traction sooner, but slowly, so you'll notice a slide before it becomes a problem.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by TXRacer
[B]There's certainly a more noticeable snap with S02's than other tires, probably because the S02's have so much better dry grip.

 

Jschmidt, I've never driven on pure race slicks, but I'm told that they ARE twitchy at the limit and offer little warning before breaking loose. I suspect, as you said, part of that is just higher G forces and speeds. Less audible warning too since softer compounds generally don't howl at you until you're way out of shape.

 

I race open wheel cars on yokohama slicks. I find them as easy if not easier to drive than street tires. A good race suspension deserves partial credit for this however. So I don't agree that slicks are harder to drive at the limit than street tires, on the contrary, I think the opposite may well be true. But try them out yourself sometime and come to your own conclusion.

 

>>>My E36M3 was nearly as forgiving as the Miata and the number of times I spun it at an autox was zero....On the first run I took it very easy but quickly realized the Stook would spin nearly as hard and as fast as many true mid-engine or rear engine cars I've driven. I drove the Boxster as hard as the Stook, but the Stook's tail had to be monitored very closely as it would brake loose with much less warning than the Porsche's. BTW, the Boxster was also shod with S02's so I don't think that is the problem. <<<

The S2k has a potentially superior suspension layout compared to the two German cars. Theoretically anyway. The M has struts up front while the Boxter has them front and rear. Struts definitely have their limitations. Perhaps the S2000's potential wheel articulation advantages have yet to be realized. Both the M and the B also have decent steering feel which may assist the driver's efforts to control things at the limit. Lack of on-the-limit surprises, good feel and intutitive correction are also part of the handling equation but are difficult to describe in one number.

Stan

 

There seems to be three (3) different definitiions for snap-oversteer.

1. When the rear quickly snaps out into an oversteer condition (without much warning)
2. A condition where the car and/or driver overcorrects after counter steering to deal with a rear slide (i.e., car is sliding right, driver corrects, then the car catches and whips or snaps left quickly or violently).
3. A condition where once into a turn, the driver lifts off the throttle a bit or the car is otherwise unbalanced because of a bump, shift change, Vtec engagement, etc.). (The oversteer condition from backing out of the trottle is also called 'lift throttle oversteer) and has plagued Porsches famously until just recently).

I tend to be in the camp for #2, but without a common definition, well everyone is right. And those that said that this condition should not be encountered on the street are major right. If you have a snap oversteer experience then you are probably going way too fast.

Dave K.

 

Mike, as Jason posted earlier, new challenges arise when the stock suspension is shod with grippier rubber. The suspension needs to be bolstered to make it work well. (see CDelena's post).

Your racer is optimized for slicks and if you have wings as well.....heh, slicks, wings, open wheels... I'm venturing where I've never been before, but I'd sure like to try it sometime! :