RED MX5

Excellent point here; Wish I'd thought of it first.

To break the tires lose without punishing the driveline, all you have to do is turn the steering to full lock, let the clutch out normally, and then squeeze the throttle until the back tires start to spin. The car will then start to rotate, and you'll go into a classical "donut." To make sure that only the tires suffer, exit the donut while the tires are still spinning, and let them regain grip smoothly (just hold a steady throttle until they stop spinning). This is in fact pretty much what you see in the animated gif in my signature.

Note however that extended donuts WILL overheat the tires, and will ultimately shread the tires if you over do it. Also, DO NOT do repeated burnouts or donuts, because the S2000 diff gets hot very quickly (even under normal acceleration), so you need to let it cool down between burnouts or donuts. If you don't, the oil will get to hot and the differential is apt to suffer.

ALSO, and perhaps most important of all, make sure you have more room to slide than you could possibly ever need, because if you misjudge how far you can slide, you could easily end up hitting a curb, light pole, or other undesirable, hard objects.

If you turn the steering before lighting the tires, and don't do a clutch dump to get them spinning, the tires are taking the vast majorty of abuse.

chhatre9

WOW. You guys have brought up plenty of good thoughts, most along the same lines. I DID NOT realize how WEAK the s2k diff is until you guys mentioned it over and over.
Also, I did not think much in terms of drivetrain damage - I remember reading a post on here where a s2k member rode with a racecar driver on a track and said that the best drivers are the ones that shifted and accelerated without any jerking - smooth - as this was best for the car and efficiency.
I also made the mistake of buying tires too early and now have the mindset to "wear" the current set (OEM MY06 tires) out by sliding around a little.
Point definately taken on 1, having excess room, 2, no one around 3, over the limit is point of no return 4, need to practice since new at autoX
My question though, is since people have been telling me that I don't know how to burnout/peel out/slide, do any of you have any instruction on how to do so?

Thanks in advance

qbmurderer13

Its just something you have to go and do. We could give you the best instructions in the world but that can only do so much. Go to an auto cross and drive it as hard as you possibly can, you will most likely slide or spin and there you could learn how to recover or how to maintain the slide. You could also just go nuts in a huge empty parking lot which is a lot more fun The only way you will learn is to go practice, but like redmx5 said do it a little bit at a time. Be safe

raisantos

so.. first... it's better to rev higher (6-7k ??) than below vtec(3-6??) so that tires will break loose, this is better for the diff???

second.. i thought CDV is there to help minimize wear and tear to my clutch, tranny, and diff...

third... what's the impact if my VSA is on while launching my car... is it helping me protect my car(from wear) or just making it safe??? sometimes when ich comes to me.. i like launching my car at stop lights at night... with the VSA on... thinking that it's not hurting my car that much because once i loose traction.. VSA will help me regain it...

what's the best way of keeping my car from wear and tear(as much as possible, as i know it's inevitable) while still being able to have fun once in a while(launches i mean). it keeps my drives from being boring...

RED MX5

First off, I'm not one of the people who considers the S2000 differential to be weak. It will not stand up to certain types of abuse, but it's more than strong enough for the application, and it absolutely *can* take a licking and keep on ticking. It just won't stand up to certain types of abuse. Any diff is going to fail if it's ask to do more than it can do, and I personally feel that the S2000 diff gets a bad rap. Most S2000 owners never have any problems with their differential, and most who have had differential problems have done things that have contributed to the failure.

The diff isn't weak, but lots of people have broken them, often at the strip or trying to light the tires, and a number of factors contribute to these failures. Just know that some have had grief from trying to do this kind of thing, and don't take a chance that might break something you can't afford to fix. Please don't try what I'm about to explain to you, unless you can afford to fix anything you break. I've done countless burnouts in my S2000, but I'd stop doing it instantly if I were to find myself in a position where having to replace the diff would take anything away from me or my family. Don't risk breaking something you can't afford to fix, OK?

Now I'm going to explain this, but if you go out and try it, and tear up your car, do not blame me or S2kI. The safe thing to do is to avoid such foolishness, and if you ignore that bit of advice, you're on your own.

I light my tires one of two ways. One way is to turn the wheels, and accelerate hard. Long before you get up any speed the back tires will break loose, and the car will start to spin. Watch the animated gif in my signature to see how this works. This doesn't require a hard clutch drop or anything like that. Let the clutch out the same way you do in normal driving, and then add throttle after the clutch is fully engaged. Make sure you have LOTS of room to slide, becaue under some conditions the car will slide a very long way, and you'll have little or no control. Allow a lot more room than you think you'll ever need.

For a straight line launch ... Well, think about moving a heavy couch. If you just push on it, it's not likely to move. But if you "bump" the couch with your weight, the impact will make it move. Not only that, once you start it moving with a short, sharp, bump, you can keep it moving by just pushing on it. You couldn't move it by pushing with it wasn't sliding, but once it has started to slide, you can keep it sliding easily. That initial resistance to sliding is called "stiction," and stiction brakes more readily when given a short, sharp, impact. What you want to do in the car is to break the stiction of the tires with a good bump, and then it's very easy to keep them spinning with a liberal use of the throttle. If you don't break the stiction cleanly you can easily break the car. High traction surfaces (like at a drag strip) increase the chance of this happening.

Rev high enough to be ABSOLUTELY sure that when you side step the clutch, the impact will break the tires stiction cleanly. On most surfaces 6,000 RPM will do the trick, but it's on you to be sure that you've reved high enough. It is better to rev too high, and get more wheelspin than wanted, than it is to rev too low, and fail to break stiction cleanly or keep it broken (if the tires grab and slip repeatedly, you get wheel hop and that can REALLY tear things up in a hurry). On most surfaces I'll rev to 6k, and drop the clutch, then either modulate the throttle to control the amount of spin a little, or just let the tires spin like crazy and possibly bounce the engine repeatedly off the rev limiter. I generally try NOT to ride the limiter during a burnout, but bumping the limiter during the burn isn't going to hurt anything. It's there to keep you from reving the engine so high that it will be damaged, so while I wouldn't make a habit of it, hitting the limiter really doesn't do any harm.

Now having explained that as well as I can I have to say, once more, that if you try any of this, it's on your head.

The CDV accomplishes a number of things, and it's impossible to know which ones Honda had in mind when they decided to include the valve, but it would seem that it absolutely must tend to cushon the driveline a little. It also helps keep the F22C in VTEC on the 1-2 shift, and reduces the chance of damage due to a money shift (by slowing the clutch engagement and giving the driver more time to realize his mistake). The heavier flywheel clearly is NOT intended to decrease driveline shock, becase the heavier flywheel can store more energy, and deliver a heavier shock, but it does make the engine accelerate more slowly after a money shift, and I'm inclined to think that the CDV and the flywheel were intended to work together to reduce the number of engines damaged by mechanical over revs (money shifts). Whether that was the intent or not, it's clearly one of the results.

You have to decide for yourself; Is the CDV your friend, or is it going to cause you grief? If you're shifting hard and getting excessive clutch slip it could be because your shift timing stinks, or it could be becuse of the CDV, and only you can figure that kind of thing out. Some people never even notice the CDV, while it bugs the heck out of others. If you are going to be lighting the tires the CDV is not your friend, beucae it will delay the clutch drop and reduce the chance of breaking stiction cleanly. BUT, if you remove it, and don't shift well/smoothly in your regular driving, you could potentially hammer the driveline a lot more. I really can't see any advantage to having the CDV, AS LONG AS you shift smoothly and don't hammer the driveline with the heavy flywheel every time you shift gears.

If in doubt it is best to leave the car stock, but I personally would not be doing burnouts in a car with a CDV. Others may disagree, but it's something I wouldn't do myself.

[QUOTE=raisantos,Apr 7 2008, 01:13 AM]third... what's the impact if my VSA is on while launching my car... is it helping me protect my car(from wear) or just making it safe???

2slow

Red, you ever get tired of typing?

Always love yer posts man

raisantos

LOL I know. That's why I love asking him questions. I'll give him one liner questions and he'll reply with paragraphs after paragraphs of explanation.

Red? Do you even have time to drive your cars? With all this time you spend answering questions here? Hehe



Thanks, it's all greatly appreciated.

ace123

if you forget to turn VSA off before you dump the clutch, the car bogs *hard*

turn VSA off first.

RED MX5

It seems that if I try to offer up a simple explination for something it always confuses some, so I try to be thorough enough to minimize confusion. I'm pretty sure that the long posts irritate some people, but they're probably not the one's asking the questions.

Time wise, it's not an issue for me, becaue I took an early retirement over a decade ago, and now I don't have to work eight hours a day to pay the bills. Gives me lots of time for the cars, shooting bulls here on S2kI, or whatever else I care to waste it on.

That said, I probably don't drive my S2000 as much or as often as the average S2000 owner, because we've got other cars. The S2000 is just something I get out of the toy box when I want to play.

RED MX5

That was what I'd guessed, but I didn't want to guess wrong.

Conclusion: Trying to launch with VSA on is not going to be good for the driveline.