Again... Wow-

Someone must have really hit a nerve with you.

I've always been a high performance car guy first. If I wasn't, many of my friends and sponsors wouldn't even bother helping me in my hobby. You may think that presents a biased opinion, but at least I've driven a properly modified S2000 and can relate to how those improvements relate in terms of track lap times. You continuously comment on things in this aspect without any point of reference. I still want to learn this trait- Please teach us, I'm sure there are others that want to know too. I especially would like the lesson on aerodynamics that you seem so learned in, with your "facts" on spoilers and bodykits...

I'm sure many, if not all the folks here know that I like certain products more than others just by looking at my signature (everyone has their biases, eg. you like stock OEM cars, many here don't...etc.). But, at the same time, I don't use many products because of inferior quality, not because they don't sponsor me, and vise versa. I use Ohlins shocks and springs on my other car, but I bought them without any discount- a $5000 purchase, because that was the solution to my problem. I've swapped out sponsor's products on my cars for competitor's products because they were the ones that worked... "payrole of the aftermarket"... I would also say that I pay for many of my products in one way or another. This is a hobby for me, after all, not the crusade that you seem to be behoven to. I'm no Michael Schumacher, and I never will be. Although, of course, it's no concern of yours. In any case, if I'm getting rich on this you'll be the first one I'll tell.

You have continuously pointed out to many in this forum that modifying a car will cause it to lose value. My response to that is to show that there have been instances that your theory is incorrect, no matter how you want to position your argument. In addition, you insist that this car will lose incredible value from modifications. My response is that I would invest in an item that didn't depreciate so quickly if I was primarily concerned with the value of the purchase. You may want to reread my posts before running off screaming incoherently next time. In this case, you have not successfully parred my reposte, especially in regard to the next paragraph.

Strongly worded posts do nothing but show that you enjoy bullying others here... "lousy example"... "a bit too thick"... "sound like a fool"... I always thought personal attacks weren't allowed here. I must say, when it concerns you this has happened quite a few times. I wasn't aware this was ls6.com, but if you want to take off the gloves, so to speak, I will be happy to do so in my next post.

In any case, to each their own. I like modified cars, I like modifying cars, I like driving cars. From my point of view, you have a very limited experience, passion, and understanding in all those.

[Edited by GTRPower on 04-07-2001 at 01:28 PM]

 

Bieg, please refrain from the personal insults. Anymore and this thread will have to be locked.

Anyways, someone posted a thread earlier about a Mugen S2000 being offered through Honda dealers (I don't know where the thread is). According to your theories Bieg, shouldn't this car be cheaper? Sure it's still offered through Honda, but it's been modified by Mugen. Looks like your theory doesn't really hold much water.

[Edited by Jay Li on 04-07-2001 at 12:25 PM]

 

Mugen is a poor example because like AMG is to mercedes it is almost an arm of Honda being run by Mr. Honda's son and all. Still the extra money invested in the Mugen parts will be hard to get back unless they are lucky and find someone who wants the car exactly the way it is.

I also thought this forum was not supposed to be for hawking products. But seeing how it is sponsored by so many aftermarket companies I see how that has changed. Seems like it has turned out to be quite a marketing tool for those who hawk products. People might want to remember that when they read posts on how great this mod is or how great that mod is. If someone is getting free parts or even sponsorship money I am sure his or her opinion will be unbiased <smirk>.

Well I am not hawking anyones products. Any product I have bought I have paid for in full. I don't owe anybody anything. My opinion regarding mods (considering the commercial bias of this forum) is not popular but I will still express it.

Any permenant mod you make will generally reduce the value of this car (unless you happen to be Steve McQueen or some other Movie Star). The best method of retaining as much value as possible is keeping it as pristeen as it was the day you bought it.

Funny but in 30 years people will be hunting swap meets trying to find original sun visors with the airbag warning lables to complete their S2000 restorations.

It is only original once as they say

As far as me being on a crusade to keep it stock well I really don't give a damn what anyone does to their cars. In case there are people out there sitting on the fence I am just am telling the other side of story to them. As I type this I am watching Dream Car Garage about a 69 Z28 that is totally original and unmolested. Because it was NOT modified in ANY way and it had all it's documents it was worth between 40 and 50 grand. That is the way it works. Of course if it was an original Penske/Sunoco Z28 it would be worth more but that is because it would have a great history as a RACE Car.

Had that Z28 been owned by some kid who cut holes in the original dash to mount gauges or flared the fenders, or bolted on a wing or cut the hood up to mount a hood scoop it would be worth much, much less. Almost worthless to a collector because now it has to be restored BACK to original. Depending on how much work has to be done determines what it is worth but the price is always geared to what it would cost to get it back to factory condition. A restored car is not worth as much as a perfect original.

So modify to your hearts delight. If everyone mods their car my car is all the more desirable because it is in original condition.

 

GTRpower

I also love driving, moding, and having fun with my car. When someone does't like what we do it's their opinion. my .02

 

Beig,

As for the original parts, a person can keep all original parts and put it back the way it was in the future. I keep all my original HONDA parts in a room stored away for the day I don't want my S2000 anymore (which is never).

Your not like me and I AM not like you, as for the value of my car, I don't care if anyone does't want my car because it is moded to the max. I drive it, I see it every day, I own it, you opinion is always welcome, if your satisfied with your car so be it.

As for MUGEN they make great products for the S2K and you may not have the money to purchase these products, like AMG is also another high priced product. This is my opinion

 

I plan on installing Rick's Leather console cover any day now, other than that it is stock. If I felt I could improve the car significantly with a modification I would. But as I understand it, the F20C is just about at it's engineering limit and the balance of the drivetrain is engineered with this particular horsepower and torque in mind. Some cars beg to be heavily modified, some don't. My opinion is that this one is a keeper as is (with the addition of Rick's stuff).

Just my opinion, humble it is not

 

By the way my bike is heavily modified (pistons, head work, cams, carbs, pipe and suspension mods)

Also I will probably modify the PT (supercharger) since it is not fast enough for my tastes.

 

Imo it may be difficult to become "wealthy" owning a completely original S2000, much as I do not expect to become wealthy owning a completely original 1990 Mazda MX5 Miata limited edition British Racing Green #440 with hardtop, now with 3k miles, oem tires, oem floor mats and tonneau cover stored in the trunk etc. The satisfaction in having said machinery is reward in itself. I understand this.

I chose to modify my S2000 for the reward of better performance in my daily driver; the S2000 is a very nice sports car and I enjoy it for what I have chosen it to be for me.

 

I bet you will NEVER have any trouble selling your Miata. If you hold it long enough it will be like coming across a pristeen MG, Healy or Triumph today. The S2000 has an even better chance of retaining it's value because of it's limited availability, it's landmark engine and the fact that it is hand built. It is a more desirable car now so odds are it will be a more desirable car in the future.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bieg
[B]
I bet you will NEVER have any trouble selling your Miata.