You people are killing me...

This will be the first time I will mention this name- and not even in the context of this thread.

I never mentioned the name "Mugen" in this thread prior. I don't know how some of you got the idea that was what I was hinting at, or alluding to. Some have put me in the position of the Aftermarket Nazi- but the truth is far from that. I use lots of aftermarket parts on my cars and bikes- Mugen is just a small part of my hobby.

In any case, live and let live. Some people like to think that they know more, some DO know more, some want to learn more...

I fall in the third camp.

Bieg- do whatever the heck you want to do- just stop screaming at me or anyone else for thinking differently. I don't appreciate your poor choice of words and name calling, and you have yet to apologise for that. You still haven't proved anything to me except that you want every S2000, nay- every CAR, to be stock and that everyone else who doesn't is, in your opinion, a poor excuse of a human being. You have still not demonstrated to any degree your familiarity with aftermarket products and their use on the S2000. This kind of closed-mindedness is not appreciated here but for some strange reason you're tolerated more than others that have displayed this behavior and have been consequently banned. I guess the thinking is although you are very rude- at least you're a very rude S2000 owner. There's a silver lining there somewhere.

If you want to respond viciously to every post I make about any aftermarket part, I can do likewise, and turn this into a pissing match. Or you can leave me alone, and I will do the same. I hope you don't intend to "open up Pandora's Box" as they say, that you can't close later.

By the way "minimal gains" is very misleading. With these "minimal gains" I was 5% faster at my local track, with all things being equal. If it was that easy getting 5% out of any other car I'm sure I would do it EVERY TIME.

[Edited by GTRPower on 04-08-2001 at 12:22 AM]

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Prolene
[B]Imo it may be difficult to become "wealthy" owning a completely original S2000, much as I do not expect to become wealthy owning a completely original 1990 Mazda MX5 Miata limited edition British Racing Green #440 with hardtop, now with 3k miles, oem tires, oem floor mats and tonneau cover stored in the trunk etc.

 

Feel better now? Got that off your chest? How many times do I have to say that I don't give a damn what you or anyone else does to their car? Why don't you read my posts again and see if you can find the parts where I actually say I don't give a damn what anyone does to their cars. You track your car and mods make sense for you. FINE.

You way overstate your case in the above paragraph as well as put words in my mouth that I never even implied let alone said. Let us just call it even at this point.

That being said you seem to over react to me stating the opposite opinion to you about mods. I am not arguing that you pick up time on the track or even are not faster on the street. I am just stating the simple fact that modded cars are not worth what a pure sock original condition car is worth to a collector. Your example of Steve McQueen's car not withstanding. That really was a stretch to try and prove my statement wrong and you KNOW that.

How about we leave it at this. You total up all the dollars of mods you have on your car. Pretend you had to pay for all of them for this experiment. Then when (if) you put your car up for sale, see how much you get for it. I am betting that you will lose more percentage wise than someone who never added anything to their car.

Now if you think that is giving false or misleading advice then so be it. We have nothing more to talk about then. I think that someone who recommends mods to everyone but fails to mention this little tidbit is the one who is misleading people.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pellisS2k
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by Prolene
[b]Imo it may be difficult to become "wealthy" owning a completely original S2000, much as I do not expect to become wealthy owning a completely original 1990 Mazda MX5 Miata limited edition British Racing Green #440 with hardtop, now with 3k miles, oem tires, oem floor mats and tonneau cover stored in the trunk etc.

 

Bieg-

You just don't get it.

I don't intend to sell my car- unlike you. I thought I made that very clear to you earlier but I guess not. So here it is again...

I DON'T INTEND TO SELL MY CAR, AND MOST PEOPLE HERE ARE OF THE SAME VEIN. Hence, any sort of argument you come up with that concerns this matter DOESN'T HOLD and in my eyes DOESN'T MATTER. IT IS NOT PART OF THE SCOPE OF THIS DEBATE.

Total up the amount of use you have in your car- total up your maintenance costs. Total up the time spent here at your rate of income. I would be surprised if you made back your investment yourself when you sell your car (since you will someday according to your assumptions). I have never denied a car is a depreciating asset/liablity, but you consistently insist on this car's value appreciating in the future- hence your apprehension to modifications. Only recently have you changed your mind about this- about three posts ago.

Again, if you didn't here me before- THIS IS A HOBBY TO ME. If you didn't care what I or anyone else did with the car why would you post such venomous comments like you have in the past and even in the present? Stop pretending- you do care what people do to their S2000s- far more than I do. I tend to not post anything if I don't have genuine questions or concerns. Many people do things to their cars that don't agree with my views- but if it "floats their boat" all is fine. I'm not going to bash them repeatedly like you do. I try not to comment on your posts, but when you instigate a debate you bring out the worst in me. Fact- you've called things "bullsh#t", "abortion", "stupid", "kludge", "dumb", "foolish" in this thread alone, and you've attacked me personally too...
I get my enjoyment out of driving my car- not out of thinking that it will be someone else's collector's piece. You think you're just a keeper of a great car- I think that a great car is owned to be driven. You derive satisfaction from just owning the car- I get satisfacion from driving "the balls off it" as you put it, and probably maintained it better than you because of my attentiveness to the real performance of the car. Fact- the cars you've cited as examples in this thread are worth pretty much zilch in many parts of the world. Like I said earlier, value is given to an item, not assessed by the owner. Other people will ultimately decide on what is valuable. In thirty years perhaps a modified Yugo will be the hot ticket- perhaps that will be seen as the epitome of automotive design and ingenuity that was not appreciated in it's production run and consequent ownership. I can't predict the future- but I do know that trying to do that by looking at the past is not reliable.

You say I've put words in your mouth- I say you've stated your case several times over a long period and have alluded to your distain for whatever people do to their cars. Yet, for all the words you've said you have never apologised for your rudeness.

You can't get over the fact that I've used an example that shows you are wrong in AT LEAST ONE INSTANCE, IF NOT MORE. Deal with it. Fact- an owner modified the car. Fact- decades later the car is worth far more than "original" versions of the same car. How do you know if there aren't any "famous" people here who own S2000s and like modifying them? That's a pretty heavy handed approach.

I recommend modifications based on performance. If it doesn't make the car quantitatively faster or improve the driving experience for the owner, I don't recommend it. For you, I recommend not changing a single thing in your car- anything that you add will detract from your small world. Also- I don't "track" my car- I am not a GPS locator. I drive my cars on the track. The modifications I've done have improved my driving experiences with the cars I own which is why I recommend them. I have rarely trailered my car to and from the track- hence I can vouche for the reliablity of the given modifications since the car is driven to and from the track. Considering that we are talking about mostly bolt on applications, when concerning the S2000, I don't see why you are so against them. You don't have a point of view to stand on- you're experiences allude to old school Camaros being raced or hacked up and stock S2000s. Your myopia when analysed closely is laughable at best, and downright ignorant at worst.

If you want, I can continue. It's up to you...

 

GTR-

Give it up. Now you talk for all members of the forum that they will never sell their cars. Sure whatever.

I drive my car quite a bit and I drive it fast.

Gee I am sorry this is not a place where seldom is heard a discouraging word about mods. Why do you get so excited over it? Hurting your sponsors or something?

Your Steve McQueen example is not the norm and you know it. You are really stretching to make a point. I am sure Elvis has some cars that normally would be worthless but because he owned them they are priceless. Is that what the Kelly blue book should be based on? fair, good, excellent, owned by Elvis?

BTW the curve that cars follow is that they depreciate until they start to become collectible and then they appreciate. On either side of the curve mods affect the value of the car. That is the part of this that you don't seem to grasp. Some mods are plainly done in very poor taste. Turning a very desirable sportscar into a slammed, winged, stickered garbage canned exhaust boy racer is an assault on good taste. I give my opinion on that. Deal with it.

I expressed my opinion and will continue to do so about mods or any other subject for that matter. I don't care if you like it or if it goes against the trend of the forum.

Deal with it.

 

First of all, to each his/her own...

People have different reasons for doing mods (or not doing them as may be the case). In general, they fall into some of the categories:
1) mod to get a unique and personalized car
2) mod for cosmetic/vanity sake (remember that one person's meat is another's poison)
3) mod for performance (bang for the buck does come into play here)
4) no mods for resale value purposes (this argument works both ways - in the resale market, there will be those looking for a bone stock car, a low mileage car or one with mods - resale value effect of mods is hard to predict and should seldom be a factor - we have the S2000 for driving not as an investment or a garage queen for display)

Personally, I would only mod for performance - and then mainly in the handling department (0-60's are no big deal to me), and only the the bang for the buck is there and it can be proven that there is almost no tradeoff or disadvantage of going with the mod.

 

bieg,

I did'nt think I would take your side on this ..especially after spending more than a a FEW zeroes on modifications, but you do have the right to speak your mind. And fundamentally I can't fault your logic. Because I own a 356 speedster, I know all about OEM. Every part down to the tennex fasteners are more valuable (monetarily), than ones with modern "improvements" to be had if one desired.
However, I think the "value" in modifying is'nt just intrinsic, and that getting to spend time with thier cars; weather it be that 2 hour "dial in" fpr test drive, or the highway cruise with new wheels drive many owners have in fact increased the "value" of their S2000's. Either way, it's a much better image than a car aitting in the living room with a bubble around it.


p.s. Bieg- unknowingly,you answered a long standing question I once asked a friend about what type of person drove the 40 year old, but absolutley pristine 356 cabriolet I once saw. (:

 

Bieg-

[QUOTE]originally posted by Bieg
[B]

Give it up.

 

Visceral;I own also several classics(a couple of 356 ,one is by Bob Campbell the president of the 356 Registry).
Several of them have "period aftermarket items" like steering wheels,fog lamps,different wheels etc.
They were added from the previous owners for;
-cosmetic reasons or performance or just to make the car look more personal.
I partecipated to several dozens of meeting and classic cars shows ;(my cars are not garage queens)and always had the ammiration of other collectors or the "experts".
The previous owner of my 356A ,did not thought about originality when he changed the stock seats with better racing seats from a Speedster!That was 43 years ago.He was driving the car to enjoy not to be worth more after all this years!!!
Just my 2 cents(somebody bad minded will surely say;of course is a VEndor!!)