I'm guessing the outside firm might be...Mugen?

 

Great guess, Jay...what would you like as a prize?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ultimate lurker
[B]If you're really into sleuthing, I'd suggest looking at the Accord Type-R engine from Europe.

 

I've met the engineers who do the motors for the NSX and the S2000. I'll be back there before long and will ask them where the real engine comes from. My guess is it's Honda--those guys are really amazing. Actually, I'm sending him an email and I'll see what he says.

 

The S2000 motor is developed with the help of a laboratory called SAIMAA in Japan. That factory is specific in research of race car engine and now it helps many Japanese shops to develope their street car engine. F20C is one of them. They used some of the technology that they had tested on the JTCC super modified H22A engine to the F20C.
So you guys are right that honda contract out SOME of the developement work to a outsider factory and also true on Honda engineer design the F20C. They both take credits on the engine development. I don't see any contradiction on these facts.

Even Ford,GM or toyota pass out some development work to a outsider factory. That is no big deal. Like no auto manufactures made tires. many of them don't make wheels.
For cost or time saving or they leave some jobs for the expert on that field to do it.

As the credibility of the SAE paper and the Hyper Rev mag.
They are both equally reliable as Hyper Rev is well known in Japan like car and driver in USA. I don't think if there is a big mistake like that will not be retify by Honda at once. We all know SAE is the real benchmark so there is no need for me to say anything for it.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by wileecoyote
[B]The S2000 motor is developed with the help of a laboratory called SAIMAA in Japan. That factory is specific in research of race car engine and now it helps many Japanese shops to develope their street car engine. F20C is one of them. They used some of the technology that they had tested on the JTCC super modified H22A engine to the F20C.
So you guys are right that honda contract out SOME of the developement work to a outsider factory and also true on Honda engineer design the F20C. They both take credits on the engine development. I don't see any contradiction on these facts.

Even Ford,GM or toyota pass out some development work to a outsider factory. That is no big deal. Like no auto manufactures made tires. many of them don't make wheels.
For cost or time saving or they leave some jobs for the expert on that field to do it.

As the credibility of the SAE paper and the Hyper Rev mag.
They are both equally reliable as Hyper Rev is well known in Japan like car and driver in USA. I don't think if there is a big mistake like that will not be retify by Honda at once. We all know SAE is the real benchmark so there is no need for me to say anything for it.

 

Interesting. Do you know what technology that is? I had heard that the clutch was developed from their touring car racers as hard as that is to believe. (From some second hand word of mouth admittedly so I don't accept it as fact). As far back as two years ago I was told by someone who knows someone who reviews cars that the Honda rep who dropped of the test S2000 told this guy when he launched it to just SIDESTEP the clutch at about 6500 RPMs to get the best times and not to worry about it because the clutch was developed from their touring car racers. It sure smells like it is from another planet when you burn it thats for sure. It has a ring of truth to it because that was the first reference I have heard of the correct way to launch the car. Maybe the guy knew what he was talking about.

 

>>I don't think this engine needs any ballance work as it is pretty damn smooth even without the use of any ballance shafts. Honda must have paid close attention to consistant component weight. <<

I'm sure that the engine comes with a good balance job. But that is not really the reason why some 4 poppers use balance shafts. ALL in line four cyl motors have some inherent balance problems which get worse with large, r heavier moving parts whether they are weight matched or not. Two litres is not huge as 4 cyls go, and Honda doubtless cut the mass of every moving part they could. That helps make any 4 cyl imbalance less noticeable in addition to helping things survive at high revs.

Stan

 

Correct. They cut mass everywhere. There is hardly any piston mass under the wristpins except perpendicular to the pin to keep the piston straight in the bore. Even the wrispins are tapered to reduce mass.

 

I remember when the ITR came to the US, and everyone said you couldn't get any more power from it... now days they're getting 200 whp with off the shelf parts.. just give the F20C some time.. we'll see 230 whp from someone's NA car within 2 years I'm sure. It may take cams, pistons etc... but it's far from impossible.